Posted on Oct 24, 2017
Do cadets actually outrank non-commissioned officers?
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I deal with cadets a lot, and they insist they out "rank" every NCO in the army. My usual response is somewhere around the guides of "uh-huh." Can I get some clarity of this?
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 1044
It was such a joy serving as an E5 Cadet in a company executive officer position in the National Guard, after a six year Naval enlistment, prior to commissioning. There was a SPC in my unit, with no prior active service, who loved trying to put me in my place all the time. Some of the comments I have read brought back those joyful memories.
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Someone show me on this chart were cadet is, and then I will salute/call Sir/Ma'am them. Until the day of commissioning all they are, are college students wearing uniforms. At the day of commissioning, I would gladly salute call Sir/Ma'am.
https://www.defense.gov/Our-Story/Insignia/
https://www.defense.gov/Our-Story/Insignia/
Military rank is more than just who salutes whom. Military rank is a badge of leadership. Responsibility for personnel, equipment, and mission grows with each increase in rank.
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During my 20 plus years of riding Submarines we had a few ride us during the summer months, they did not even get to eat with the officers, much less bunk in officer country, When they came on board, they thought they were Gods gift to the enlisted guys, it did not take but just a few minutes for them to learn the lowest seaman was senior to them. There were not salutes not "Sir's" just "sweep the deck, empty the trash can, ETc... They were there to learn how a submarine worked and ATTEMPT to do what was next to impossible to accomplish and that was to Qualify in 3 months as you were given 1 year to do in normal times to do. Yes a few of the guys did accomplish this task.
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Just my opinion but not only NO but HELL NO! The have not earned the right to be called "Soldier Sailor or Marine" The have no rank therefore how can they possibly outrank those who have earned it?
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Well would say this to all the NCO,s out there. It really doesn't make any difference while he is a cadet I would suggest That h/her be treated with a bit of respect as a minimum They might have long memories, The military is not that big and you might meet them again and they will surely outrank you then. I went to a Military school and had the usual at that time hazing by a couple of upperclassmen. Busted out of school joined army received a commission after awhile and ran into them in RVN and or Germany and outranked them and one was assigned to my bridge company when I took command SO REMEMBER WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.
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I was a TSgt when my new Life Support Officer, OIC in title only came into MY shop and started throwing out stupid orders to my troops to 'establish' himself. I sat back and did only what I was ordered to do. After a sortie was cancelled and I was called into the Ops officers office for an ass chewing I simply explained that Lt was giving all the orders. He gave me a little smile that lacked any humor or warmth and dismissed me. I didn't make it ten steps and the Lt was being paged by the Ops O. Half an hour later me and the Lt had a heart-to-heart. We established an understanding. I ran the section and he was the face of the section with the other pilots. No repercussions.
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Remember that an NCO is a non commissioned officer. Remember that even though he or she is not commissioned they are still an officer of sorts. A cadet is merely a candidate who hopes to be commissioned at a future date. therefore living in the moment an NCO outranks a cadet.
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I first heard that myself when I was 14 or 15 and my older brother was a middie at Annapolis; three years prior to departure to Parris Island I knew right away that something wasn't quite right about that. But that indeed was the case. Luckily, we were both "Army brats"-- Dad was career Army, Enlisted --> OCS --> officer-- and I'm pretty sure he locked him on.
Then again, others are clueless and/or not privy to such guidance, sometimes with disastrous results.
It's kinda on par with the conventional wisdom vis-a-vis: yes, a 2nd Lieutenant/Ensign outranks, say, a Sgt Major or a Master Gunnery Sergeant/Master Chief, and yes, old lifer SNCOs are professional enough and comfy enough in their own skin to render all the due and proper customs and courtesies as they should.
Yet I've personally witnessed a couple incidents in which some boot Lieutenant saw fit to try and sweat, say, a Sgt Major and wound up needed skin grafts to replace the parts of their face and/or ass that got chewed or burned off.
When I was with 2nd Tank Bn, the battalion "Top"-- MGySgt Sloan-- was a legend. A quintessential battle-scarred old Gyrene: tough as hell, hilariously profane, feared and respected in equal measure, "joined the Corps when Christ was a Corporal," the whole bit. Nobody, not even the Battalion CO, dared try and lean on him. And he was not one to suffer fools; I guess he figured that if nothing else, 36 years in the Corps and two wars meant he didn't have to.
I'm pretty sure he had a couple pair of balls from some careless Lieutenants who tried to bust his chops hanging from the rearview mirror of his truck like fuzzy dice. I remember hearing that one of them went to the Battalion CO to report the offense and request/demand satisfaction; the CO allegedly busted out laughing, said something akin to "Well, I guess now you know better, don't you?" and told him to get the hell out of his office.
Then again, others are clueless and/or not privy to such guidance, sometimes with disastrous results.
It's kinda on par with the conventional wisdom vis-a-vis: yes, a 2nd Lieutenant/Ensign outranks, say, a Sgt Major or a Master Gunnery Sergeant/Master Chief, and yes, old lifer SNCOs are professional enough and comfy enough in their own skin to render all the due and proper customs and courtesies as they should.
Yet I've personally witnessed a couple incidents in which some boot Lieutenant saw fit to try and sweat, say, a Sgt Major and wound up needed skin grafts to replace the parts of their face and/or ass that got chewed or burned off.
When I was with 2nd Tank Bn, the battalion "Top"-- MGySgt Sloan-- was a legend. A quintessential battle-scarred old Gyrene: tough as hell, hilariously profane, feared and respected in equal measure, "joined the Corps when Christ was a Corporal," the whole bit. Nobody, not even the Battalion CO, dared try and lean on him. And he was not one to suffer fools; I guess he figured that if nothing else, 36 years in the Corps and two wars meant he didn't have to.
I'm pretty sure he had a couple pair of balls from some careless Lieutenants who tried to bust his chops hanging from the rearview mirror of his truck like fuzzy dice. I remember hearing that one of them went to the Battalion CO to report the offense and request/demand satisfaction; the CO allegedly busted out laughing, said something akin to "Well, I guess now you know better, don't you?" and told him to get the hell out of his office.
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