Posted on Oct 24, 2017
2LT Infantry Officer
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I deal with cadets a lot, and they insist they out "rank" every NCO in the army. My usual response is somewhere around the guides of "uh-huh." Can I get some clarity of this?
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Col Jonathan Brazee
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Edited 6 y ago
Technically, yes. But . . .

As a third class mid on my summer cruise on the USS Somers, if a seaman told me to clean the heads, I cleaned the heads. The entire purpose of the cruise was to experience what a junior enlisted sailor went through on a daily basis. We had a ROTC midshipman who didn't see it that way. At one point, we couldn't find him, and when he did return to us, he was in shock and moved extremely gingerly. We never asked what happened, but he didn't take that attitude anymore.

On an historical basis, a midshipman, William Sitgreaves Cox, was given a court martial for abandoning his command. From WIki:

During the battle with HMS Shannon in June 1813, Cox served in charge of a gun crew. Captain James Lawrence was wounded, and Lt. Cox took him below deck. However, all other officers had been seriously wounded or killed, so Lawrence's incapacitation left Cox, the senior non-wounded officer, the ship's commanding officer. It is not clear that he realized that he now was the acting commanding officer. While he was below the ship was boarded; though he returned and attempted to defend the vessel, he was taken prisoner. After being exchanged he was promoted to third lieutenant.

He was convicted in 1814 by court-martial of dereliction of duty and unofficer-like conduct for abandoning his watch station while under fire. He was discharged from the Navy in disgrace.

In 1952, President Truman cleared Cox's name and restored his rank.

Of course, then there was Midshipman Philip Spencer, who, in 1842, decided to mutiny and take over the USS Somers to lead the life as a pirate king. Spencer, who was the Secretary of War's son, was executed without a court martial. But that doesn't really pertain to the question at hand.
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5 y
Lol! That's some interesting history sir.
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SFC David Dean
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They are considered 3rd LT's in their last year. Many go into the field so to speak to experience the functioning military instead merely the classroom environs. In my 20 years I had the opportunity to interact with them in this situation on three occasions. I can say that in two of these circumstances it was an example of how to exchange reality for the class scenarios with these cadets. In the last one I can say that this individual allowed his position to inflate both his beliefs that he was significantly more important than he was. As well he had an over-inflated view of himself merely because he attended the military academy. I can give a real solid piece of advice to those pursuing this route. Successful officers remain or achieve because of their men and women; not in spite of them. You earn their respect by demonstrating your leadership and not lording over them as their superior. By that I mean your rank gives you superior position, but you are not better than your troops. As well, those in the lead position cannot demand respect from troops. you earn it!
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LTC Battalion Commander
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I'm a little confused as to how they could. They're not in the Army until they take the oath. Or do pointers swear in prior to commissioning? Does their time at the point count as time in service? Do they get a DD214 upon commissioning? How does that work?
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PO3 Jeff Keeran
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I disagree.
From the perspective of pay Cadets receive tuition etc. plus about $1,000/month or $12,000/year. As you may know there may be 400,000 of E-1, 2 or 3 in the army.
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1stSgt Jeff Little
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My brother and I both retired as SNCOs. Our sister spent 6 years enlisted and then 6 years commissioned. My son is an NCO. My daughter is a cadet at USAFA. God bless all who serve. Cadets should remain humble and enlisted should remain professional.
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LTC Chris L. Streeter
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Where as they are NOT yet commissioned; there are some rules for Cadets. As an prior enlisted service member when I joined the R.O.T.C. MS-3 and MS-4; I had an equivalent of an Enlisted NCO. If I remember correctly when I a MS-3 it 'equated' to SGT/E5. When I was an MS-4; I had an equivocate of a SSG/E-6. However we treated as 'Officers'..
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CPT John Allen
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As a former Cadet, eventually an O-3 JAG, any Cadet or new Officer who does not listen VERY respectfully to the Platoon Sgt., has risen only to the rank of Stupid. 3-Stripers outrank EVERYBODY.
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1SG George Eisenbach
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I spent time in the 80's as a Senior ROTC Instructor. The only time a Cadet even played the I out rank you card was right after they received their first salute from me. Unless things changed and NCO's give up their authority, they don't outrank anyone until their Commissioned.
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SSgt John Bedus
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I used to conduct 12 hours trading for Air Force ROTC students, and every once in a while you'd run into one that thought he was Montgomery, most of the time it was over pretty good you just disregard what they say it happened do it your way but every once in a while there's one that just has to push it and those were the ones that went to the back of the wives sat down and did not qualify we didn't have to take it and we didn't.
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SPC Robert Davis
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Far as I'm concerned, no, I was a Spec.4, and they are just in school, they don't hold any military rank and they don't swear an oath of Commission until their schooling is finished.
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