Posted on Oct 24, 2017
Do cadets actually outrank non-commissioned officers?
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I deal with cadets a lot, and they insist they out "rank" every NCO in the army. My usual response is somewhere around the guides of "uh-huh." Can I get some clarity of this?
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 1044
I went to BCT in 1976 and ended up becoming a cadet through ROTC. In 1979, I went to Cadet Troop Leadership Training (CTLT or something like that) wearing my dot. I was assigned to an Infantry BCT unit at Fort Benning. How I interacted with the BCT Soldiers was extremely different than how I interacted with the NCOs. With the NCOs, I felt like I was there to be trained and acted accordingly.
This turned out to become a necessity because one of my BCT Drill Sergeants from 1976 was a senior NCO in the company I was assigned. It was great getting to know him from an angle of partner rather than just being a trainee.
This turned out to become a necessity because one of my BCT Drill Sergeants from 1976 was a senior NCO in the company I was assigned. It was great getting to know him from an angle of partner rather than just being a trainee.
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Yes, but when I was a cadet I never had any negative experiences interacting with the enlisted side of the house. Mutual respect was something we all took for granted. Not sure why this is such an issue now. We had senior NCOs in ROTC, and they were clearly in charge in order to train us. Not one of us would ever dream of challenging them, but they also were very tactful in getting the job done.
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There is one tricky situation with midshipmen which is command of small boats. The senior Naval line officer onboard (if there is one) is legally in charge if there is an accident. If its a routine boat (such as between a small island and the mainland), they can easily be the senior person (since the crew is enlisted). A LCDR or CDR would be invited to the bridge, but rightly midshipmen were ignored by the crew. Me and my buddies would sit right on the edge of officer seating and be inconspicuous, especially if we'd been told to disappear after lunch by our supervisor. We would joke "ha ha, MIDN Academy is actually in charge of this boat". However, in the late 90s there was a boat grounding in Italy and a midshipman belowdecks was found guilty of dereliction of duty (not being on the bridge is cut and dry dereliction). When I returned a few years later, the crew was very careful to invite the senior MIDN or ENS. It was up to you whether you went up, not clear how you add any value when they know the area 500x better than you. I knew guys who didn't ride off-peak times because they didn't want to take the risk.
My commanding officer in this situation avoided a grounding (he rated a private smaller boat to support a wardroom outing). As it was an unusual route at night, the pilot was going straight for some rocks until he intervened. CO was right to be paranoid, would have ended his career.
My commanding officer in this situation avoided a grounding (he rated a private smaller boat to support a wardroom outing). As it was an unusual route at night, the pilot was going straight for some rocks until he intervened. CO was right to be paranoid, would have ended his career.
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Its just a courtesy provided them, they are not even officially in service until they commission
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Suspended Profile
This comes up on here once and a while and it seems to get a few people, cough, NCOS, heated. The reality is there aren't going to be many scenarios where cadets even interact with NCOs outside the ones at West Point or ROTC. There are probably some summer "internships" where cadets join serve with a regular unit and some ROTC cadets are in guard units but there is still a commander who certainly will only let the cadet go so far off track. The NCOs and Warrants should mentor the cadets as those cadets will soon outrank even the Warrants, be writing our evaluations, and giving orders.
LCDR (Join to see)
Most operational Navy ships get a handful of MIDN each summer. A few get put on operations for MIDN and may have hundreds pass through over a couple weeks. You spend a lot of time with petty officers as a MIDN.
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There is rank and there is respect for service and experience. From a former NCO and OCS Mustang.
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I can't speak for the Army or MC but I can speak for the Coast Guard, and I would assume that it works for the Navy also. A Cadet is a Midshipman at the Paygrade of E-5. A Midshipman derives his or her moniker based on Square Rigged sailing days. The crew bunked forward near the foc'sle (fore castle), the Officers and Master quartered below the Quarter Deck. The ship's carpenter, chandler, and cook were in the deck houses between the Mizzen and Main Mast. The Cadets were berthed in the Deckhouse amidship hence the name Midshipmen. Midshipmen are entitled to the courtesy shown a Junior Officer, but do not outrank the Petty Officers. Frankly, I would pity the Midshipman who would try to take on a Master Chief Bosun as that would be the fastest way to get to the Bridge for on-site education. Most Midshipmen know that they are aboard ship to learn and have fun doing it. and the crew enjoys teaching and showing.
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