Do cadets actually outrank non-commissioned officers?

Regardless of what the regs say, my oath was to obey the orders of the “officers” appointed over me, not the cadets.

While technically cadets outrank all enlisted personnel (AR 600–20 Army Command Policy) and service academy cadets are authorized to exercise command ahead of NCOs in the absence of all other officers, cadets do not rate salutes except amongst themselves though.

LT, here is my take on this one. Midshipmen neither quarter in the Officer's Berthing and neither do they berth in Chief's or Crew's berthing, they in fact have their own berthing. A Midshipman is exactly that. When we had tall sails, they bunked not in the Foc'sle nor in Officer's Qtrs. but bunked Midship between the Ship's Capenter and the Galley in 5' bunks and 4 to a berthing area so that should tell you where they rank. Fast forward the Midshipmen are at pay grade E-5. Now that does not seem to outrank a whole lot of things. From a common sense/career enhancement move they need to talk less and listen more. They are not familiar enough with things outside of the Academies to go around telling some E-6 which way the wind blows, nor is it considered a career enhancement move. So, their job is to learn, and they can't do that by blowing wind. A good Admiral latched on to some salty CPO and never let go and that's why they become First Lords of the Fleet. (Substitute your service's terms).

AR 600-20 COVERS THAT

I wouldn't even one up a 1SG as a 2LT let alone a cadet who thinks he/she outranks the SMA.

I just shake my head and laugh at those types. A bit of background, I spent 12 years enlisted with multiple combat deployments and just this semester in school decided I wanted to go back active, but on the officer side so I spent the summer getting into ROTC. I just quietly laugh when they chest bang like that, and pray one day they try to tell some salty pissed off NCO that their dot out ranks them.

In was fortunate during my time in the navy to never run into a midshipmen who wanted to go around bullying enlisted. At times the midshipmen might be in training on a watch and need to give operational orders, a commissioned officer was always giving that training .

That all said, our current system of officers and enlisted is outdated. Once appon a time it was believed that certain classes of people were better, and naturally should be in command. Furthermore, a good education is required to be an officer, along with the ability to read and write well.

Most of the reasons for this separation don't apply in our modern society with our modern education system. We should revamp the system. Make everyone start as enlisted then select officers from among the best.

When I was a cadet, shortly after the Revolutionary War, we were taught that there were Army Regulations, Army tradition and unwritten but universally respected rules dealing with NCO’s. We were taught to keep our mouths shut and open our ears when a senior NCO was telling us the what ifs about the real Army. That served me very well and I became a Colonel with the help of many fine NCOs who I’ll never forget. It doesn’t mean I did whatever the sergeant said, but I listened and weighed the pros and cons. When I decided and the decision went against the NCO’s advise I would tell them why I went that way. But that was very infrequently. US soldiers are different than any other soldier in the world: British soldiers obey the higher command because that’s tradition; Chinese soldiers obey the Communist Party (failing to do so can result in your death), German soldiers (and many others) fight for their Father or Mother land. American soldiers fight because they believe its the right thing to do. And they do so with the expectation that their leaders are honest and forthright with them.

Where cadets F up is that we often have 2 different things going on. They have a rank and yes they out rank NCOs. Kind of like brand new 2LT they too out rank NCOs. The cadets do not have a formal position within a unit. Besides experience and education a CSM has a boss who out ranks the Cadet by a lot . You don't mess with the CSM unless you prepared for the 06 bull behind him. The platoon sgt answers to his platoon leader and/or Company commander. When Cadets are in for their summer training they may be delegated some authority. Who ever delegated it sets the limit. So yes their rank should be respected by the soldiers they are working with as you would with any other but respect cuts both ways and their experience is lacking so guiding said cadets through conflicts is up to you and your soldiers.

When I was in basic at fort Dix in 1956 we had 3 west point cadets on tdy they were idiots 1 climbed to the top rafter in a ww2 barracks with white gloves to test for dust then wanted company punishment for a smudge on his glove.