Posted on Oct 24, 2017
Do cadets actually outrank non-commissioned officers?
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I deal with cadets a lot, and they insist they out "rank" every NCO in the army. My usual response is somewhere around the guides of "uh-huh." Can I get some clarity of this?
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 1044
Technically yes, but I never met an officer or senior NCO worth their salt who wouldn't back you up if you told the cadet where to stick it.
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For a young officer to disregard their NCOs, no matter where they are in the chain, is by far a foolish mistake. You have the basic respect afforded to an officer but you need to know if you don't already, the experience levels are dynamically different. Bottom line NCOs have seen some s**t. A young officer must recognize this. For a cadet, the youngest of officers, MUST acknowledge that rank has very little to do with actual BF knowledge and experience, if they want to survive and be successful; those NCOs are like gold. You do what they tell you and learn how to use your rank the right way. If not, it's painful and quite dangerous to say the least.
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MSgt John Ingersoll
Cadets are NOT officers until they graduate and are sworn in. They only have rank in their own cadet environment.
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I don't know exactly how it works, but when Midshipmen would show up for duty on our ship, the ones in first or first two years were like seamen. They had a lot of stuff to learn about our Department (Engineering) and would need to be run through systems and get signed off just like the ship's Junior Officers not assigned to Engineering do. We usually didn't see the senior ones, since they were up forward on the AOR's (5 and 3) learning the Operations and Navigation stuff. I don't remember if we had to call any of them "Sir". I think "Midshipman" sufficed.
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Was commissioned officer for awhile. System set up so officers could be in charge after they learned what makes it function. That mistake is often made by new company employees who thinks that everything is like they put in the books. Company or Agency function along a system which is set up to achieve a result based on nuances which often change. Changes in nuances are often what most people have a hard time adjusting to. I found that in a company, agency, or the military!!
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You want clarity? Yes they sure do. That clear enough for you? As a cadet you won't be deployed so you are not going to talk to some "grizzled old" NCO just come in from Hamburger Hill. You sure do out rank NCOs. I was at the Air Force Academy originally (class of 1997) and usually you don't see cadets put there stupid enough to open their mouths at the wrong time. There is a reason for everything, and if an NCO tells you something, then consider what they say. Because whereas there are "grizzled old" NCOs, there are also NCOs that have their heads so far up their gunny sacks that they don't see any light. Sorry, but it is true. I have had a commander who unfortunately held the rank on a Major and his name was Carl Bergaman. He had his head so far up his rear I am sure he has never been able to pull it out. He wrecked my career and I wrote an non fiction names named book naming him as the 'commander' in charge of Alpha Company OCS unit at Fort Benning that could have done something, but refused to do so. My point is that no matter what rank someone is, they can be idiots - including your NCOs.
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Cadets Technically outrank all NCO's but as a former Cadet (Several years ago) I was not stupid enough to try and pull rank during summer trainings. I worked with several NCO's, they called me Cadet and I called them Sergeant, We worked very closely and I did everything they did thus earning their respect as a peer rather than a superior. What's the difference between a 2nd LT and a PVT? The private has been promoted once!! Bottom line for all military members, know the difference between rank and authority.
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MSgt John Ingersoll
Not technically or any other way does a non-military, civilian, cadet outrank anyone other than other cadets. No then, in June when the cadets have sworn to the "oath" and received "Class is Dismissed" are they officially in the military and have the rank of 2d Lt.
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CAN WE PUT THIS "DEAD HORSE" TO BED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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This is where respect comes in, any young officer knows that a senior NCO has the knowledge and maturity to support them. But its also needed that this situation goes both ways, an officer will not use his rank to push around or belittle anyone. And the NCO will not take advantage of the inexperienced officer. Old school they both know there place, stay in your lane.
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Actually I don't believe they technically do outrank most NCOs as I seem to recall when I was in the Reserves that we would have Cadets come to our Unit and they were paid E-5 pay, thus I would assume that would be the level of their authority.
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MSgt John Ingersoll
Not technically or any other way does a non-military, civilian, Cadet outrank anyone other than other Cadets. Now then, in June when the Cadets have sworn to the "oath" and received "Class is Dismissed" are they officially in the military and have the rank of 2d Lt.
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The only time I have seen when senior leadership are really concerned with Midshipmen are during summer cruises. Their “negative” comments can get COs a stern talk from Commodores and Admirals.
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