Posted on Oct 24, 2017
Do cadets actually outrank non-commissioned officers?
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I deal with cadets a lot, and they insist they out "rank" every NCO in the army. My usual response is somewhere around the guides of "uh-huh." Can I get some clarity of this?
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 1044
I had this happen on a Midshipmen Cruise. I was charged with showing 4 of them the inner workings of CIC. The discussion somehow got around to how to address them. So, I bet them I could do more pushups than 1 of them, so pick your best guy. The number was 20... I then ask them which arm, right or left. What they didn't know is that I had been lifting weights for 2 years and at that time I could bench press 325. So, I didn't address them as Sir.
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When I was a Platoon Leader, XO, and Company Commander I would greet each ROTC or USMA cadet that came in for their summer stint and tell them there were two things they needed to set in stone in their mind: First, they were practicing at being an officer, they were in fact filling the role of an officer but had yet to receive their commission. As such they would outrank the NCOs around them. More importantly, they needed to remember that point and act accordingly-no hanging with the troops, no buddy-buddy behavior, no being just one of the boys and NO LORDING rank over their NCOs.
Second, they needed to remember that all of their military science classes, all their leadership training and all their feelings of accomplishment were like a grain of sand on a sea shore compared to the platoon sergeant they would be paired with. Therefore they would do well to watch, listen and learn at the feet of wisdom and learn from a master warrior. At that time many of the PSGs were Vietnam vets.
Second, they needed to remember that all of their military science classes, all their leadership training and all their feelings of accomplishment were like a grain of sand on a sea shore compared to the platoon sergeant they would be paired with. Therefore they would do well to watch, listen and learn at the feet of wisdom and learn from a master warrior. At that time many of the PSGs were Vietnam vets.
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I think technically they do, but they are dumbasses if they push the issue. Kind of like the man that constantly reminds his wife that the "man" is the head of the house. Hope he enjoys eating fish heads.
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Students of the Academies are not commissioned until they graduate from the Academy they're attending... That should tell you something ! Also, they are awarded enlisted ranks as they progress through their Academy based on the year and honor awards... It's my understanding that these ranks are meaningless in terms of the real Army...
Shouldn't that be "End of Story", or is this old Marine wrong ???
Shouldn't that be "End of Story", or is this old Marine wrong ???
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When I was in the Marines a cadet was a student, which means they are still civilians and hold no actual rank in the military. They receive their rank once the complete the academy.
I actually had a run in with two Naval Academy cadets when I was in NC. They wanted myself and another Marine to salute them (they just got off the bus to take a tour). We laughed and informed them they are not officers in the Corp. As we were informing them of this an Officer walked up behind them. We saluted the Officer and the cadets said that is better. The officer told them we were saluting him and not them. He walked the cadets back to the bus and informed their chaperone of the situation and very loudly said if he sees it again he was not going to allow anyone off the bus.
I actually had a run in with two Naval Academy cadets when I was in NC. They wanted myself and another Marine to salute them (they just got off the bus to take a tour). We laughed and informed them they are not officers in the Corp. As we were informing them of this an Officer walked up behind them. We saluted the Officer and the cadets said that is better. The officer told them we were saluting him and not them. He walked the cadets back to the bus and informed their chaperone of the situation and very loudly said if he sees it again he was not going to allow anyone off the bus.
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I got out in January 1992, but this is how I look at it. I don’t remember being taught any military customs when it came to cadets. So, I think that if I was I was in uniform and I came across a cadet, I would not salute him/her.
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I was told by a Marine volunteer at the front desk at the VA hospital to use the chain of command when I asked to talk to the patient advocate. I became a civilian 50 years ago and practice the chain of command UP and Down, in civilian life. A lot of folks forget and go straight to the one DOWN the chain needing correction there by, bypassing the chain. Now you have created several unhappy people. Morale disappears.
I had an E6 bypass the company "TOP" NCO by assigning me sand bag detail for a week. I was not under his command. TOP said to fill the bags and he would take care of it. I was puzzled with the response and filled the sand bags. I trusted TOP to take care of it... Months latter when the E6 left, TOP let me read the scathing evaluation, which he wrote to forever be recorded in the E6's permanent file. The E-6 might as well leave the Army; which he should, due to his lack of leadership skills.
CO's should always go DOWN the chain of command with issues and never pull rank to cut in line at the PX etc. Many 90 day wonders only lasted a few weeks in combat because OCS never taught the DOWN chain of command principle. Nuf said.
I had an E6 bypass the company "TOP" NCO by assigning me sand bag detail for a week. I was not under his command. TOP said to fill the bags and he would take care of it. I was puzzled with the response and filled the sand bags. I trusted TOP to take care of it... Months latter when the E6 left, TOP let me read the scathing evaluation, which he wrote to forever be recorded in the E6's permanent file. The E-6 might as well leave the Army; which he should, due to his lack of leadership skills.
CO's should always go DOWN the chain of command with issues and never pull rank to cut in line at the PX etc. Many 90 day wonders only lasted a few weeks in combat because OCS never taught the DOWN chain of command principle. Nuf said.
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