Posted on Oct 24, 2017
Do cadets actually outrank non-commissioned officers?
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I deal with cadets a lot, and they insist they out "rank" every NCO in the army. My usual response is somewhere around the guides of "uh-huh." Can I get some clarity of this?
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 1044
Okay, here's a conditional answer. West Point cadets indeed outrank all NCO's and also must be saluted like the warrant and commissioned officers. The authority for this is provided in AR 600-20. I quote:
AR 600-20, Section 2:
2-8. Death, disability, retirement, reassignment, or absence of the commander
a. Commander of Army element.
(1) If a commander of an Army element, other than a commander of a headquarters and headquarters element, dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier will assume command.
(2) If the commander of a headquarters and headquarters element dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier of the particular headquarters and headquarters element who performs duties within the element will assume command. For example, if a division headquarters and headquarters company commander is temporarily absent, the executive officer as the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier who performs duties within the headquarters company would assume command and not the division commander.
(3) Senior regularly assigned Army Soldier refers (in order of priority) to officers, WOs, cadets, NCOs, specialists, or privates present for duty unless they are ineligible under paragraphs 2-15 or 2-16. They assume command until relieved by proper authority except as provided in 2-8c. Assumption of command under these conditions is announced per paragraph 2-5. However, the announcement will indicate assumption as acting commander unless designated as permanent by the proper authority. It is not necessary to rescind the announcement designating an acting commander to assume duties of the commander “during the temporary absence of the regularly assigned commander” if the announcement gives the time element involved. A rescinding announcement is required if the temporary assumption of command is for an indefinite period.
By the way, here is an article on this subject:
https://mwi.usma.edu/yes-sergeant-actually-west-point-cadet-outrank/
AR 600-20, Section 2:
2-8. Death, disability, retirement, reassignment, or absence of the commander
a. Commander of Army element.
(1) If a commander of an Army element, other than a commander of a headquarters and headquarters element, dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier will assume command.
(2) If the commander of a headquarters and headquarters element dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier of the particular headquarters and headquarters element who performs duties within the element will assume command. For example, if a division headquarters and headquarters company commander is temporarily absent, the executive officer as the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier who performs duties within the headquarters company would assume command and not the division commander.
(3) Senior regularly assigned Army Soldier refers (in order of priority) to officers, WOs, cadets, NCOs, specialists, or privates present for duty unless they are ineligible under paragraphs 2-15 or 2-16. They assume command until relieved by proper authority except as provided in 2-8c. Assumption of command under these conditions is announced per paragraph 2-5. However, the announcement will indicate assumption as acting commander unless designated as permanent by the proper authority. It is not necessary to rescind the announcement designating an acting commander to assume duties of the commander “during the temporary absence of the regularly assigned commander” if the announcement gives the time element involved. A rescinding announcement is required if the temporary assumption of command is for an indefinite period.
By the way, here is an article on this subject:
https://mwi.usma.edu/yes-sergeant-actually-west-point-cadet-outrank/
Yes, Sergeant, Actually That West Point Cadet Does Outrank You - Modern War Institute
Scott Faith argues that contrary to popular belief West Point and ROTC cadets outrank NCO's according to Army Command Policy.
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SP6 Jeffrey Miller
When I served in Vietnam as an E-5 Intelligence agent in Military Intellignece, and a top-level Vietnamese linguist at the ripe old age of 21, my job was considered "top priority," and I was not to wear rank on my uniform. Instead, I ware a "US" on my collars. As the saying goes, "When in doubt, salute." It was fun getting saluted by majors and colonels who were twice my age and rank.
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Officially E1s outrank cadets, however any good service member knows not to abuse that or use it as a reason for disrespect because A. There still people and B. They may come back as your boss and you don't want them to come back pissed at you.
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Usually No. There are a couple training programs they attend where some authority is given per the Battalion, Company and Platoon commanders. Those programs are CTLT (Cadet Troop Leader Training) and DCLT (Drill Cadet Leader Training).
Basically the chain of command has them shadow and or even take command of a platoon sized element but no UCMJ Signature authority. Basically they have temporary command and people in the section have to listen to them or answer the REAL chain of command. Otherwise cadets of varying experiences are under command and supervised through ROTC/Academy NCOs and Officers.
The Military Academy and Certain Military Schools like The Citadel, Virginia Military Institute and Norwich University tend to have stricter chains and discipline being the nature of military schools.
I’ve been out for a while but Inhope this helps.
Basically the chain of command has them shadow and or even take command of a platoon sized element but no UCMJ Signature authority. Basically they have temporary command and people in the section have to listen to them or answer the REAL chain of command. Otherwise cadets of varying experiences are under command and supervised through ROTC/Academy NCOs and Officers.
The Military Academy and Certain Military Schools like The Citadel, Virginia Military Institute and Norwich University tend to have stricter chains and discipline being the nature of military schools.
I’ve been out for a while but Inhope this helps.
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If you are a cadet and you want to flex your newborn powers of, ahem, command, just think “Would I say the same thing to CSM Basil Plumley.” Your answer to that should guide your journey through your Army experience.
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When talking about any subject, there are 2 things that DO NOT sound good AT ALL in conversation.
1. Using 'actual(ly)'
2. Repetition of words
The second point wasn't used, which is a wonderful thing.
1. Using 'actual(ly)'
2. Repetition of words
The second point wasn't used, which is a wonderful thing.
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