Posted on Dec 14, 2020
Do I need to render a salute to an officer when my hands are occupied?
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This is the second time I’ve gotten reprimanded for this situation. I was walking with a binder in my hands, and a mug in the other hand. I walked past a CSM and a CPT, greeted both as I was unable to salute. CSM stopped me and demanded that I drop everything to salute the CPT. AR 600-25 states that I am not required to render a salute if I am carrying articles with both hands. What is the right answer?
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 633
You can't multi-task and put the binder under your arm while holding the mug and salute? If you were elbows deep working on an engine or holding up something with both hands that you couldn't let go I can understand and one would thing so would the CSM, but a binder and a mug really?
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If your hands are occupied you do not salute. Within reason.
If the binder was light (a few pieces of paper in a binder), it could be tucked under your armpit, or clasped with a loose finger of the hand holding the coffee mug, and a salute rendered. It really does depend on what you are carrying.
I once watched a young sailor knock himself in the head with his shoes. He had a dress uniform on a hanger being carried in one hand and his shoes in the other. Without thinking he tried to salute me with shoes in hand. Damn near knocked himself out.
I've also seen a Marine pushing a wheel barrel full of dirt, dump the load as he let go to salute.
Common sense is the rule of the day with salutes........ but be warned that a CSM has a built in BS detector that works well out past 100 meters.
If the binder was light (a few pieces of paper in a binder), it could be tucked under your armpit, or clasped with a loose finger of the hand holding the coffee mug, and a salute rendered. It really does depend on what you are carrying.
I once watched a young sailor knock himself in the head with his shoes. He had a dress uniform on a hanger being carried in one hand and his shoes in the other. Without thinking he tried to salute me with shoes in hand. Damn near knocked himself out.
I've also seen a Marine pushing a wheel barrel full of dirt, dump the load as he let go to salute.
Common sense is the rule of the day with salutes........ but be warned that a CSM has a built in BS detector that works well out past 100 meters.
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The Regulation is specific in that it says you do not have to render a salute if you are working (i.e.carrying something, both hands occupied).
That said, a Regulation is only a guideline and a Commander can ignore it if he puts out different guidance and is willing to take the heat of his Commanders. Everywhere I served the CSM spoke with the Commander's voice and that means YOUR Commander has put out different guidance. The first time you get hit in a Command, apologize and explain you were following the Regulation and did not know the Commander's intent. The second time is on you as you do know the Commander's intent.
My recommendation if saluting any time is the Commander's guidance is to clear your right hand, either handing the item in it off to someone else (i.e. the CSM) or juggling everything with one hand and saluting.
I know a guy who had this problem and at the Commander's next open call, he brought this up and asked if that was the Commander's intent. It wasn't and the problem was solved although the CSM had it in for him the rest of his time there, so that is risky.
That said, a Regulation is only a guideline and a Commander can ignore it if he puts out different guidance and is willing to take the heat of his Commanders. Everywhere I served the CSM spoke with the Commander's voice and that means YOUR Commander has put out different guidance. The first time you get hit in a Command, apologize and explain you were following the Regulation and did not know the Commander's intent. The second time is on you as you do know the Commander's intent.
My recommendation if saluting any time is the Commander's guidance is to clear your right hand, either handing the item in it off to someone else (i.e. the CSM) or juggling everything with one hand and saluting.
I know a guy who had this problem and at the Commander's next open call, he brought this up and asked if that was the Commander's intent. It wasn't and the problem was solved although the CSM had it in for him the rest of his time there, so that is risky.
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I was taught never carry anything in your right hand, and if you do, did you have time to stop a gather yourself to render the salute? You can find many excuses not to do anything, but you need only to find one to do what is right. If you did not learn from the 1st time??
Soldiers do things wrong for two reasons,
!. They don't know any better
2. They don't care
which are you/
Soldiers do things wrong for two reasons,
!. They don't know any better
2. They don't care
which are you/
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CPT William Jones
I am 76 yrs old been out a long time and was an officer most of my service time. I still keep my right hand empty if possible. Get mail from gang box down the street. Place heys and mail in left hand every time.
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CSM Tony Blair
CPT William Jones
That’s the 1st thing I was taught, don’t carry anything in your right hand!!!
Airborne All the way!!!
That’s the 1st thing I was taught, don’t carry anything in your right hand!!!
Airborne All the way!!!
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How did the stupid M F get to be a CSM? You are aright and most officers would agree, except maybe an LT or two.
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CPT William Jones
I was an officer and think sfc frank smith is the stupid one and wonder with his attitude how he ever made Sfc.
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"... carrying things in both hands" means like if you are carrying stuff in support of a mission, like ammo boxes, weapons components, vehicle parts, etc... A binder and a mug? With such a light load, you should plan your movement in expectation to salute (a mug? Are you serious?) You are an NCO, you should be able to figure out some way to carry both and still be able to salute. No excuse.
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I am sure there are other circumstances, but just at the face value from the post...Slip the binder up in the left arm pit and transfer the mug to the left hand and then render the salute??? Invest in a regulation back pack? I think per regulations you're correct, but as a SGT, you've been in the ARMY long enough to know how shit runs. As a NCO and If you were a SSG or a drill what would you advise your soldiers? As a NCO what do you advise your soldier on this matter?
When I was enlisted we were taught/trained to keep your right hand free. I guess I learned because I never was reprimanded for it, but if I had, there wouldn't be a second time. Now if this is your own unit's leadership that reprimanded you both times, then...you should have known better. Clearly they set the standard regardless of the regs so either meet the standard or get some thick skin for all those reprimands.
When I was enlisted we were taught/trained to keep your right hand free. I guess I learned because I never was reprimanded for it, but if I had, there wouldn't be a second time. Now if this is your own unit's leadership that reprimanded you both times, then...you should have known better. Clearly they set the standard regardless of the regs so either meet the standard or get some thick skin for all those reprimands.
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You are correct. Acknowledge the officer with respect, say by your leave sir, and carry on...
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