Posted on Dec 14, 2020
Do I need to render a salute to an officer when my hands are occupied?
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This is the second time I’ve gotten reprimanded for this situation. I was walking with a binder in my hands, and a mug in the other hand. I walked past a CSM and a CPT, greeted both as I was unable to salute. CSM stopped me and demanded that I drop everything to salute the CPT. AR 600-25 states that I am not required to render a salute if I am carrying articles with both hands. What is the right answer?
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 633
Has the Military really changed so much that a question like that (from an NCO no less) even arises ? The fact that you challenge this almost requires them to invoke ucmj action. Just go home while you can before you get yourself into a deeper frying pan. It’s very difficult in society to have a discharge other than honorable. The punishment never stops.
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The answer is yes, however, the it begs the question is a coffee cup encumbering? I was carrying a box once with both hands, an LT walked past myself and a companion who had his hand free. The Lt asked "Sailor, is there something wrong with your elbow?" to which Tim reached his hand out as if to shake hands thinking the young LT was a member of the Jesse L Brown missile frigate which Tim was TDA to the Charleston Naval Hospital for shoulder surgery...I smiled at the red faced LT and said "Tim, I think he wants you to salute him." My Cheshire grin was because I knew the LT knew that I knew I did not have to salute him as I had my hands on the box. Tim saluted and then the annoyed LT walked on past. :) I waited until he was out of earshot to bust up laughing. I knew two first classes that would go out of their way to force an officer to salute... they would run across the street and stagger themselves to make him salute twice... their philosophy was "Well, whose making who salute?" :)
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In the 1980's we were told not salute but acknowledge the officer...nothing more
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Gotta keep that right hand free at all times. Sorry. That's the rules on the ground regardless of what the AR say.
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In the Marine Corps if your hands are legitmately occupied you only need to give a verbal greeting. However I'm not sure a mug and a binder would qualify. It doesn'tsound like it would be a big deal to move the mug to the smae hand as your binder.
When I was in 2nd Mar. Div.Headquaters Bn nack in '65 there was a Major who would make you drop a wheel barrow to free up your hands to render a salute. A peice of work.
When I was in 2nd Mar. Div.Headquaters Bn nack in '65 there was a Major who would make you drop a wheel barrow to free up your hands to render a salute. A peice of work.
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Obviously not. Your hands are full.
You asking this question means your Drill Sergeant failed you, therefore you need to repeat basic training.
You asking this question means your Drill Sergeant failed you, therefore you need to repeat basic training.
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You are not going to appreciate any answers you might get on here.
So you were carry a coffee mug? Enjoying some brew, I gather? Sounds like premeditated ha ha "I have an excuse to not salute. And I have the regs on my side.
Carry on.
So you were carry a coffee mug? Enjoying some brew, I gather? Sounds like premeditated ha ha "I have an excuse to not salute. And I have the regs on my side.
Carry on.
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You could just say "Good morning Sir or Mam. That was the case 50 years ago. It may be a part of ego on their part.
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Hello Folks,
I read your post and it reminded me how many time I had to stop what I was doing to follow customs and courtesies. I did some online research and according to the guideline given you are on the right side of this situation. However, that does not mean you can enforce this regulation on your seniors and commanders. Therefore, I went forward a little bit further and presented the query to a "Artificial Intelligence ChatBot, with a very nice Language Processing Code, "phenomenal". Gentleman (You)
This were the steps recommended: to the Gentleman.
// In the situation you describe, the gentleman seems to have been in accordance with AR 600-25, which is the U.S. Army regulation governing salutes. It's important for members of the military to adhere to regulations and procedures, but it's also important to recognize that some senior members might have their own interpretations or expectations.
// Here are steps the gentleman can take to address the situation and prepare for the possibility of it happening again:
1) Educate Himself: Before addressing the issue, he should ensure that he fully understands the regulations. Re-reading AR 600-25 and possibly discussing it with peers or a superior officer he trusts might provide clarity.
10) Prepare for Future Encounters: If the issue is likely to recur, he might want to practice how he will address it in the future, or consider altering his routine to avoid the situation if possible.
2) Document the Incident: Write down a detailed account of what happened, including date, time, and location. This can be useful if there is a need to refer back to the incident later.
3) Seek Advice: Before approaching the CSM or CPT, it might be wise to seek advice from a trusted superior or peer, preferably someone with more experience in military protocols.
4) Approach the CSM Politely: In a respectful manner, he could request to speak with the CSM privately. During the conversation, he can explain that according to his understanding of AR 600-25, he is not required to salute when carrying items in both hands. He should communicate that he respects the rank and does not intend any disrespect.
6) Ask for Clarification: Ask the CSM if there is a unit-specific or unwritten protocol that he should be aware of regarding saluting when hands are full.
9) Record the Outcome: Depending on the outcome of these conversations, he should make a record of how the issue was resolved. This may be useful for future reference.
5) Offer a Solution: Suggest an alternative way of showing respect when carrying items in both hands, such as greeting with a verbal acknowledgment.
7) Speak to the Chain of Command if Necessary: If the issue is not resolved through conversation with the CSM, he may need to bring it up with his immediate superior or someone else in his chain of command.
8) Consider Training or Informative Session: Sometimes, these situations arise from misunderstandings or lack of knowledge about the regulations. The gentleman can suggest a training or information session about saluting protocols to prevent similar incidents in the future.
Remember, it's important that the gentleman remains respectful and professional throughout this process. In the military, chain of command and respect for rank are critical, so how he communicates is just as important as what he communicates.
END of Response.
As you can see the step numbers are out of order, although the statement remains complete, I rearranged the order which I believe you should follow, to record events use a personal logbook.
Warning:
Treat this issue with outmost respect, Please don't become arrogant thinking you're holding high moral ground, since this issue plus bad attitude will back fire on you. Now I have to say this, If you are instigating their reactions to your provocation, then Karma is a *itch my friend.
***Suggestion: Carry files in your backpack and mug on left hand, keep R-hand free.
I read your post and it reminded me how many time I had to stop what I was doing to follow customs and courtesies. I did some online research and according to the guideline given you are on the right side of this situation. However, that does not mean you can enforce this regulation on your seniors and commanders. Therefore, I went forward a little bit further and presented the query to a "Artificial Intelligence ChatBot, with a very nice Language Processing Code, "phenomenal". Gentleman (You)
This were the steps recommended: to the Gentleman.
// In the situation you describe, the gentleman seems to have been in accordance with AR 600-25, which is the U.S. Army regulation governing salutes. It's important for members of the military to adhere to regulations and procedures, but it's also important to recognize that some senior members might have their own interpretations or expectations.
// Here are steps the gentleman can take to address the situation and prepare for the possibility of it happening again:
1) Educate Himself: Before addressing the issue, he should ensure that he fully understands the regulations. Re-reading AR 600-25 and possibly discussing it with peers or a superior officer he trusts might provide clarity.
10) Prepare for Future Encounters: If the issue is likely to recur, he might want to practice how he will address it in the future, or consider altering his routine to avoid the situation if possible.
2) Document the Incident: Write down a detailed account of what happened, including date, time, and location. This can be useful if there is a need to refer back to the incident later.
3) Seek Advice: Before approaching the CSM or CPT, it might be wise to seek advice from a trusted superior or peer, preferably someone with more experience in military protocols.
4) Approach the CSM Politely: In a respectful manner, he could request to speak with the CSM privately. During the conversation, he can explain that according to his understanding of AR 600-25, he is not required to salute when carrying items in both hands. He should communicate that he respects the rank and does not intend any disrespect.
6) Ask for Clarification: Ask the CSM if there is a unit-specific or unwritten protocol that he should be aware of regarding saluting when hands are full.
9) Record the Outcome: Depending on the outcome of these conversations, he should make a record of how the issue was resolved. This may be useful for future reference.
5) Offer a Solution: Suggest an alternative way of showing respect when carrying items in both hands, such as greeting with a verbal acknowledgment.
7) Speak to the Chain of Command if Necessary: If the issue is not resolved through conversation with the CSM, he may need to bring it up with his immediate superior or someone else in his chain of command.
8) Consider Training or Informative Session: Sometimes, these situations arise from misunderstandings or lack of knowledge about the regulations. The gentleman can suggest a training or information session about saluting protocols to prevent similar incidents in the future.
Remember, it's important that the gentleman remains respectful and professional throughout this process. In the military, chain of command and respect for rank are critical, so how he communicates is just as important as what he communicates.
END of Response.
As you can see the step numbers are out of order, although the statement remains complete, I rearranged the order which I believe you should follow, to record events use a personal logbook.
Warning:
Treat this issue with outmost respect, Please don't become arrogant thinking you're holding high moral ground, since this issue plus bad attitude will back fire on you. Now I have to say this, If you are instigating their reactions to your provocation, then Karma is a *itch my friend.
***Suggestion: Carry files in your backpack and mug on left hand, keep R-hand free.
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I hate to say this, but you have to attempt to always keep your right hand free. If you have "a binder" and a coffee mug, you can easily tug the binder in your left armpit and the cup in your left hand and salute. An NCO is expected to solve the problem or prevent the problem from occuring. Hence: "Piss poor planning, Piss poor execution, lead to piss poor result." You can do it, young buck. I have faith the the future CSM potential like you. Whooaa!
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