Posted on Mar 9, 2015
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The recent case of Gen. Petraeus prompted me to think about this a little.

We frequently hear cases of important men who get taken down with sex scandals, financial scandals, ethics violations, etc. Yet, quite often, these people skate and get re-elected, re-appointed or whatever.

Why does society tolerate this, and what is it about leadership that makes men lose their way? (I specifically call out men, because the vast majority of such cases involve men in leadership.)
Posted in these groups: Values tree ValuesLeadership abstract 007 Leadership5ccd6724 Morals
76%
Absolutely!
2%
No Way
7%
They used to, before the Millennium
2%
Only if you're a chaplain
13%
Other
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Responses: 54
TSgt Tim (lj) Littlejohn
Let those with out sin cast the first stone! I'm sure as heck not throwing any stones.
SFC Bde Mobility Nco
They matter when people want them to matter.
Everyone does not have the same upbringing so some morals and values are not the same throughout America.
On GEN P. He should've been put in jail in my opinion.
Lt Col Instructor Navigator
Yes, they still matter. Patreus, for example, showed that he is incapable of safeguarding classified information. That is not someone we should turn to for national security issues.
MSgt Allan Vrboncic
Yes.
1LT William Clardy
Having served in a less-sanctimonious Army, I say that morals, values and ethics do matter, always, but most of us are men and women, not saints.

Even Jimmy Carter, who as President made a great Baptist minister, admitted to committing adultery in his heart. U.S. Grant and Gerald Ford both had reputations for drinking. There are reports that Dwight Eisenhower discreetly indulged a fondness for his driver.

On a more personal scale, I can recall discussing adultery accusations with a JAG lawyer who made it clear that the JAG policy was that they did not want to touch adultery charges unless there was clear and unambiguous evidence of it impacting unit discipline. Despite the Army being filled with notoriously lecherous troops, I recall only one instance where that burden was met (a soldier had married a nymphomaniac who had romps with almost his entire platoon, including the platoon leader). Otherwise, adultery was considered a civil action which the Army had no desire to get dragged into.
1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
11 y
Dang it! Somewhere, the paragraph in my post about the importance of reasonable forgiveness disappeared.

Basically, my point is that the real question is not whether or not a leader has lapsed morally or ethically, but what he or she does about that lapse. Sweeping it under the rug and pretending it didn't happen isn't a good answer. Accepting personal responsibility and striving to improve is part of the best answer -- the other part being a compassionate temperance of disciplinary action and mentorship when dealing with similar lapses in subordinates.
SGT Technical Support
They do, but there is no objective definition for what is and what is not moral. Only a communally arrived upon consensus. Morals need to grow and change as society grows and change because change is life and stagnation is death, no exception.
MSG Signal Support Systems Specialist
To whom?

Matters to me. I'm not sure what else counts.
SGT Technical Support
SGT (Join to see)
11 y
Who's morals and values, who get's to arbitrate, who's driving the values train?
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11 y
SGT (Join to see) I won't presume to know where your question comes from, but there are some values and morals that transcend all people and religions. Don't murder, don't steal, don't lie, things like that.

Even if one considers, for instance, the sexual mores of many millennials, Gen Petraeus still betrayed us by having an affair with a subordinate, revealing classified information etc...
SGT Technical Support
SGT (Join to see)
11 y
Oh I'm not making a point LCDR Jaron Matlow that there aren't SOME things that transcend like that, but those are the obvious choices. Where I have a problem is with the meat and potatoes of the moral code, the bulk of all human morality lies in grey area, despite your black and white examples of Murder and the likes.
BG David Fleming III
Many of these so called men grew in a privileged and entitled environment, not all of them, but many. Everyone around them bowing and encouraging their negative and destructive behavior. Ultimately, When this type of behavior is encouraged and fostered, how can anyone be suprised at the negative outcome? My two cents.
MAJ Senior Observer   Controller/Trainer
Edited 11 y ago
I am not justifying GEN Petraeus's conduct; adultery is indeed a flaw of moral character.  In the scope of political Washington, however, I do find the timing of the revelation of his breach of trust to be most peculiar; coming so soon in the wake of the fiasco in Benghazi.  Was this revelation, his public fall from grace, and eventual criminal investigation and plea deal punishment for his refusal to go along with a State Department/White House cover-up?  If he is truly no longer to be trusted, why then is he now being brought in as an advisor on strategy to combat ISIS?  It seems to me that an eagle's wings were clipped, lest he be tempted to soar too high; but he is still admired for his predatory traits.
SGT Tyler G.
Morals and values do matter, however I only think something is a "scandal" if they actually broke the law. I don't care about what someone does in their personal life so long as they're a good leader.
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11 y
Well, considering that Gen Petraeus WAS convicted, there's your answer...

And, btw, he was having the affair while still in uniform, a violation of a couple different UCMJ articles...
SGT Tyler G.
SGT Tyler G.
11 y
My response was meant to be a generality, not addressing any scandal specifically.

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