Posted on Mar 10, 2014
Do prior enlisted service members make better officers?
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I've talked with many officers throughout my career. I've noticed most have the ability to effectively lead and guide enlisted members. Most (not all) of the officers I've seen who are truly among the best are prior enlisted. Do you think being enlisted contributes to the leadership effectiveness of officers?
Training
Enlisted
Officers
Military Career
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 109
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Like all things - either way can be good or bad especially when moving into the officer realm.
I found a couple of good reads for future officers (and even those that already are) - they might have been created by Air Force members, but the content is universal across the different branches and would be very worthwhile read by all.
Below is the information and links to the reading material:
Heirpower!
Eight Basic Habits of Exceptionally Powerful Lieutenants
Bob Vásquez.
Air University Press
131 West Shumacher Avenue
Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6615
http://www.au.af.mil/au/aupress/digital/pdf/book/b_0100_vasquez_heirpower.pdf
Commanding an Air Force Squadron in the Twenty-First Century
A Practical Guide of Tips and Techniques for Today’s Squadron Commander
JEFFRY F. SMITH
Lieutenant Colonel, USAF
Air University Press
Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama
August 2003
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/au/smith.pdf
I found a couple of good reads for future officers (and even those that already are) - they might have been created by Air Force members, but the content is universal across the different branches and would be very worthwhile read by all.
Below is the information and links to the reading material:
Heirpower!
Eight Basic Habits of Exceptionally Powerful Lieutenants
Bob Vásquez.
Air University Press
131 West Shumacher Avenue
Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6615
http://www.au.af.mil/au/aupress/digital/pdf/book/b_0100_vasquez_heirpower.pdf
Commanding an Air Force Squadron in the Twenty-First Century
A Practical Guide of Tips and Techniques for Today’s Squadron Commander
JEFFRY F. SMITH
Lieutenant Colonel, USAF
Air University Press
Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama
August 2003
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/au/smith.pdf
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As a person who has worked with the Israel, the British forces and the Germans who specifically select and groom their young enlisted to prepare to lead as NCOs and Command as officers. Those who show promise and potential as potential officer candidate are offered to transition to the Officer corps. There are many who wish to serve in the Leadership and Execution side of the NCO Corps verses the Command and Planning side of the Officer Corps, there is no dishonor in selection between one course or the other.
The difference is within the way we deal with the transition, and their process, is they develop and encourage the need for both senior enlisted and officers. In Israel all must serve their 2 yrs of compulsory service and then some are selected and recommended for commissioning.
As an enlisted senior leader, I prefer to have prior enlisted officers, over fresh young officers. They are more mature and if you treat them as such they will grow and thrive. All to often a Senior Enlisted Officer does not recognize the full potential of an officer with this experience. No matter the experience of the officer, I never accepted, "Ahh Chief I am just a Dumb LT." I reminded them that the President and Congress had found them trustworthy enough to be appointed over me...in that job description... being Dumb is not in the job description! Working with them and developing them means that they will become extraordinary!
If you let them be Dumb LTs then the become Dumb Capts ect. I also point out how our sister Services and Allies rely more on the young officers to lead with distinction. I support and appreciate the Prior Enlisted Officer as a mature element of command and the leadership team.
The difference is within the way we deal with the transition, and their process, is they develop and encourage the need for both senior enlisted and officers. In Israel all must serve their 2 yrs of compulsory service and then some are selected and recommended for commissioning.
As an enlisted senior leader, I prefer to have prior enlisted officers, over fresh young officers. They are more mature and if you treat them as such they will grow and thrive. All to often a Senior Enlisted Officer does not recognize the full potential of an officer with this experience. No matter the experience of the officer, I never accepted, "Ahh Chief I am just a Dumb LT." I reminded them that the President and Congress had found them trustworthy enough to be appointed over me...in that job description... being Dumb is not in the job description! Working with them and developing them means that they will become extraordinary!
If you let them be Dumb LTs then the become Dumb Capts ect. I also point out how our sister Services and Allies rely more on the young officers to lead with distinction. I support and appreciate the Prior Enlisted Officer as a mature element of command and the leadership team.
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No not necessarily. Lots of things go into being a good officer. Maturity and experience are important. A prior enlisted lt is older and likely more mature than a ROTC lt so he may start off better. Also he does have more experience in the Air Force which helps. Experience as an officer is more important to officer development than just any old experience. So 10 year major who isn't prior enlisted should be a better officer than a 1lt with 8 years prior enlisted and 2 years officer. The responsibility you had while prior enlisted also should be looked at. A 22 year old 2lt who was a prior enlisted airman will probably not be any better than a 22 2lt from the academy or maybe even ROTC. He didn't have to practice leadership as an airman so how would that help? Now I'm sure enlisted guys like prior e officers better but that isn't really my problem. That's their problem and as long as they listen to me it's not even a problem really.
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CMSgt Frank Dailey
Kevin,
You are absolutely correct but I would challenge two Captains or Lts one with enlisted leadership(read E5/6), when you compare the two (Apples to Apples) who is the better suited to lead, supervise and provide guidance? You can't compare a Lt to a Major. I believe you are looking at this from Age perspective, verses Rank of the person. I agree the AFA graduate has greater experience as an officer as they have been groomed for 4+ years continiously to become an officer.
If you look at the Major and the 10yr prio Lt, Years wise they are the same age. Rank and Position they are miles apart. The difference from the eyes of CSM or CMSgt (Charged to develop young officers) is the prior enlisted Lt or Capt. requires less care and feeding to develop them and they are more capabile of completing tasks.
This said it is the responsibity of the CSM or CMSgt to ensure the prior officer has a clear and clean break from their enlisted position. Now they are the officer and must Command first and serve in a position of leadership, verses their role as an NCO to lead and execute the orders of the superior above them. There has to be clear and specific refined roles from the prior Lts...otherwise they become a highly paid NCO in Lt clothes.
As far as the enlisted listening to their Lts, this is a delicate and specific thing that is both earned and a two way street. You are not a buddy, but you must earn the trust of your Airman. Again, the CSM or CMSgt can help you develop the trust and command relationship. If you have two competing Lts that wont work you have to work together.
Humility, Empathy, Commitment and Dedication are required to gain the trust of the enlisted force. No matter if prior or not every officer has to know this or they are doomed. The way that I put it as I got a young officer on my team was this. " Sir you are the boss, my job is to ensure our mission gets done. I will assist you in formulating the guidance you issue, but in the end it is yours and yours alone. Know that I will execute it to the best of my ability and ensure the team understands it, appreciates it and is committed. In short I will do my best for the team to accomplish the mission and end up looking good. There will be times that I push the limits to accomplish the mission, it is then I need your support and top cover, when I ruffle some feathers..." This is why the relationship between a SNCO and their officer is sacred.
You are absolutely correct but I would challenge two Captains or Lts one with enlisted leadership(read E5/6), when you compare the two (Apples to Apples) who is the better suited to lead, supervise and provide guidance? You can't compare a Lt to a Major. I believe you are looking at this from Age perspective, verses Rank of the person. I agree the AFA graduate has greater experience as an officer as they have been groomed for 4+ years continiously to become an officer.
If you look at the Major and the 10yr prio Lt, Years wise they are the same age. Rank and Position they are miles apart. The difference from the eyes of CSM or CMSgt (Charged to develop young officers) is the prior enlisted Lt or Capt. requires less care and feeding to develop them and they are more capabile of completing tasks.
This said it is the responsibity of the CSM or CMSgt to ensure the prior officer has a clear and clean break from their enlisted position. Now they are the officer and must Command first and serve in a position of leadership, verses their role as an NCO to lead and execute the orders of the superior above them. There has to be clear and specific refined roles from the prior Lts...otherwise they become a highly paid NCO in Lt clothes.
As far as the enlisted listening to their Lts, this is a delicate and specific thing that is both earned and a two way street. You are not a buddy, but you must earn the trust of your Airman. Again, the CSM or CMSgt can help you develop the trust and command relationship. If you have two competing Lts that wont work you have to work together.
Humility, Empathy, Commitment and Dedication are required to gain the trust of the enlisted force. No matter if prior or not every officer has to know this or they are doomed. The way that I put it as I got a young officer on my team was this. " Sir you are the boss, my job is to ensure our mission gets done. I will assist you in formulating the guidance you issue, but in the end it is yours and yours alone. Know that I will execute it to the best of my ability and ensure the team understands it, appreciates it and is committed. In short I will do my best for the team to accomplish the mission and end up looking good. There will be times that I push the limits to accomplish the mission, it is then I need your support and top cover, when I ruffle some feathers..." This is why the relationship between a SNCO and their officer is sacred.
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Capt (Join to see)
CMSgt Frank Dailey you are spot on with that. I obviously forgot to mention the fact that NCOs and sncos are crucial to the development officers and the accomplishment of any mission. Thanks for the response!
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I don't think being prior enlisted makes a better officer, but more informed, has a good grasp of the basics, and has the been there, done that mindset and able to focus more on the important aspects of being a leader instead of learning everything a 2nd LT fresh out of school has to learn. I've worked with some exceptionally good ones and fortunately only a couple that let their new found officer rank go to their head. I will say I was blessed to work with many fine officers during my 26 year career and most were not prior enlisted.
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Short answer, no. Yes, some will be able to draw on their experience but I think you would find that had those officers not been prior, they would still have been high quality officers. I think prior service can give a brand new Lieutenant a leg up just due to the fact that he will have greater military experience but once he has spent a few years as an officer, the difference between him and any other good officer is pretty much gone.
I have had to many dealings with priors who thought they knew everything or couldn't shake the enlisted mentality (LCpls with officer rank) to think it inherently makes them better officers.
In all honesty, usually the only way to tell a good prior from a good non-prior is by how many ribbons they have.
I have had to many dealings with priors who thought they knew everything or couldn't shake the enlisted mentality (LCpls with officer rank) to think it inherently makes them better officers.
In all honesty, usually the only way to tell a good prior from a good non-prior is by how many ribbons they have.
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
Sir,
Thanks for your response...
>usually the only way to tell a good prior from a good non-prior is by how many ribbons they have.
I want to tell you a story...
When I was a SMSgt, I walked into a superintendents meeting and a Cpt looked at me (I was in dress blues) and said "Senior! What in the heck is wrong with your uniform?" Because I had no idea what he was talking about, I just looked confused and said, "Sir, I don't know Sir!" - He then asked why I did not have any ribbons higher than a good conduct! This was unusual, but it wasn't because I didn't deserve them - it was because I had poor supervisors throughout my career. What WAS unusual, was the fact that he noticed and did something about it. Within a few months, I had a meritorious service medal for my last 7 years with my unit - there were many accolades in that award and it was easily justified.
The point here is that just because a military member doesn't have the ribbon set you might expect doesn't mean they don't deserve them... Be a leader who recognizes your people for the job they do! They will appreciate it and work much harder for you.
By the way - that Cpt was prior service... :-)
Chief
Thanks for your response...
>usually the only way to tell a good prior from a good non-prior is by how many ribbons they have.
I want to tell you a story...
When I was a SMSgt, I walked into a superintendents meeting and a Cpt looked at me (I was in dress blues) and said "Senior! What in the heck is wrong with your uniform?" Because I had no idea what he was talking about, I just looked confused and said, "Sir, I don't know Sir!" - He then asked why I did not have any ribbons higher than a good conduct! This was unusual, but it wasn't because I didn't deserve them - it was because I had poor supervisors throughout my career. What WAS unusual, was the fact that he noticed and did something about it. Within a few months, I had a meritorious service medal for my last 7 years with my unit - there were many accolades in that award and it was easily justified.
The point here is that just because a military member doesn't have the ribbon set you might expect doesn't mean they don't deserve them... Be a leader who recognizes your people for the job they do! They will appreciate it and work much harder for you.
By the way - that Cpt was prior service... :-)
Chief
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I've had a commander that was previously enlisted (TSgt) and in my opinion he was by far the best commander I've ever met. Not only does he have knowledge, but he knows what its like to be on the bottom of the totum pole. He never asked anything of us that he hadn't already done. With that being said, he's gone now and we have a new commander who isn't prior enlisted. He doesnt have that connection with us enlisted members. He expects more of us than he's ever done and he certainly isn't volunteering to help us out or teach us.
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The absolute worst Officer I worked for was prior enlisted. The best officers I worked for - plural there - were OTS/OCS officers. The ROTC guys were, uhm uh, and the Zoomies were always a bit more carefree and fun to be around. But the prior guys were generally really good, but the worst one of all was a Major and prior....
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It all depends on the individual skills, knowledge, and ability with a good record.
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Absolutely. In my case, I went "Green to Gold" as a SMP (simultaneous membership program) cadet years after I finished Basic and AIT. Definitely found that NCO's and enlisted had more respect for me as I totally understood where they're coming from.
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In my experience, it does not matter whether they were enlisted first or not. Being a leader is all about the person, some people are better at it then others. In helping shape the careers of future officers during the last two years, many of them have asked me what they can do to earn the respect of their platoon as newly commissioned officers. My biggest advice is to show genuine concern for your troops and let the buck stop at your level. Defend and stick up for your platoon, and do not let anybody else mess with them. You do that and you will go from being the LT to "my LT" in no time and your Soldiers will respect and follow you.
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