Posted on Mar 10, 2014
Do prior enlisted service members make better officers?
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I've talked with many officers throughout my career. I've noticed most have the ability to effectively lead and guide enlisted members. Most (not all) of the officers I've seen who are truly among the best are prior enlisted. Do you think being enlisted contributes to the leadership effectiveness of officers?
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 109
Enlisted who have been in rank and are then accepted into OCS. But that is my biased opinion. I’ve met and served with both. I met straight commission officers that were complete a-holes I’ve also met prior enlisted officers who were complete a-holes. Character really defines who we are as leaders.
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While the background of a soldier can play a role in how quickly an officer develops, it boils down to the officer who is most interested and active in becoming the best leader will usually be the determining factor.
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Good question, but I must tell you that the source of commission has little to do with what makes a good officer or, even, a great leader.
Even attaining a General’s Star or more doesn’t mean that person is a great leader, let alone an officer.
Great leaders read and study their craft. They become masters of the art of warfare through study, practice and by setting the example of a humble person who cares for those in their charge as much as they understand the battlefield. They become masters of the art of maneuver and logistical operations. They teach, train and allow subordinates freedom of act and, yes, sometimes to fail. Because there are many lessons that can be learned from failure and sometimes, that is the only way a lesson can be mastered.
Worry less about where someone’s commission comes from or whether they were prior enlisted or not. Learn that and focus on being the best at your craft, take care of and train your people to the best possible readiness level, set standards and ensure they are met...by yourself first and those you lead second.
Be the leader you want to see in others and never stop learning.
Even attaining a General’s Star or more doesn’t mean that person is a great leader, let alone an officer.
Great leaders read and study their craft. They become masters of the art of warfare through study, practice and by setting the example of a humble person who cares for those in their charge as much as they understand the battlefield. They become masters of the art of maneuver and logistical operations. They teach, train and allow subordinates freedom of act and, yes, sometimes to fail. Because there are many lessons that can be learned from failure and sometimes, that is the only way a lesson can be mastered.
Worry less about where someone’s commission comes from or whether they were prior enlisted or not. Learn that and focus on being the best at your craft, take care of and train your people to the best possible readiness level, set standards and ensure they are met...by yourself first and those you lead second.
Be the leader you want to see in others and never stop learning.
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Yes in most cases, but I knew one that was self serving and a waste of air as an NCO and they made him a Officer. He was as useful as a screen door in a submarine!
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I am a member of that group. In the Marines they are called Mustang Officers. I made a few observations about that distinction. When I was an idiot 2nd Lt, that little Good Conduct Ribbon allowed me to draw a additional amount of knowledge from the SNCO brain trust. It was almost like they trusted me more than your average Lt. As I moved up in the ranks, and changed billets, that advantage continued to hold true. I remember taking command of an I MEF exercise as the camp commandant. Me a gunny and a staff sgt, the rest junior enlisted, about 150 Marines. The second night after I checked in the gunny knocked on my BOQ door with a bottle of whiskey in his hand, and said that a definite opportunity existed to make me look real good, and was I interested in some of his suggestions. Ethical or not I invited him in, about half way through the bottle I asked why he cared if I looked good. He said because of my prior enlisted time. He had some great ideas, that only a gunny can have, and our part of the exercise was a smooth running success. I told the gunny that night that he would get no special favors, and I would grind his balls into dust if he tried any tricks or shortcuts. He seemed insulted that I would have to even say that. He was one squared-away E-7. The reason for this story is that sometimes prior-enlisted officers do so well is due to the enhanced help from the senior enlisted who support his actions and take a special interest in their success. Totally all off the record of course.
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Maybe and maybe not. It really depends on the quality of prior enlisted service that officer had, who “raised them” when they were enlisted, were they Junior Enlisted, an NCO or a Senior NCO? I think prior enlisted service just gives you that practical experience and exposure that most due course officers don’t get when they are leading thier peers in ROTC, The Academy, or OCS. But leadership really boils down to the individual. I was prior enlisted for 17 years, there are officers I serve with now that I feel are much better and smarter than I am. It really does depend on the individual.
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I believe - like in all walks of life - there is a mix of good ones along with bad ones - as one 1SG has said - you sometimes get those officers who like to literally get into the NCO lane and micro manage from there, and then you get those that are just amazing and have such insight that even seasoned NCO's learn from them. The main aspect for me - imho - is communication - sharing and discussing the ideas so everyone understands and is on the same page, and how you communicate your thoughts to another. It is too easy to tell a soldier "we are doing it this way because I said so - it worked for me when I was enlisted" that will shut down your troops and get only the bare minimal in effort to accomplish the task - gonna voice an unpopular opinion - an officer is only as good as their NCO's and troops want him to be - that does not mean you are hostage to their goodwill, because your NCO's will do their jobs, but if you can communicate and are open to different ideas on how a task can be accomplished - then your troops would go to hell and back for you and take satans throne as trophy for you.
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
Thanks so much for the response - great outlook on the communication aspect - and I totally agree!
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Many of them do and a few do not. Having been on both sides of that fence, I have seen so many (prior enlisted) officers who were patently outstanding. There were relatively few who should never have been commissioned/appointed.
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
Sir - thanks for the insight Sir! Agree that it seems being prior enlisted helps in MOST cases, but not all.
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Not always. I’ve seen several that do not transition well into the role of an Officer. Their personality and way they contributed as an NCO just didn’t mesh with what officership is. Great officers trust, plan, watch, listen, and mentor; we intervene only if someone’s immediate safety is at risk.
However, ones that understand this can make outstanding officers that the troops can identify with, thus earning immediate respect, and mentor fellow officers along the way!
However, ones that understand this can make outstanding officers that the troops can identify with, thus earning immediate respect, and mentor fellow officers along the way!
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For some yes and others no. I once worked for a Navy Nurse who forgot where he came from. He was a prior Corpsman.
He was boisterous and proud. He would belittle junior Corpsmen and make you feel like you weren't worth much.
Back in 1992 he made a comment about people who made less than $60K/yr. Something to the effect that you haven't made it in life until... I wasn't even making $20K/yr yet.
He acted as though he was better than you because he became an officer. He was a LCDR (O5).
In the flip side I remember a Navy Capt who was a prior Corpsman. He was the CO of one of my Hospital commands. He was the total opposite of the LCDR.
He was approachable and knew his Sailors by name. He loved to people advance and achieve. He motivated us and wanted us Petty Officers to lead and mentor the junior Corpsmen. The command moral was high.
He was boisterous and proud. He would belittle junior Corpsmen and make you feel like you weren't worth much.
Back in 1992 he made a comment about people who made less than $60K/yr. Something to the effect that you haven't made it in life until... I wasn't even making $20K/yr yet.
He acted as though he was better than you because he became an officer. He was a LCDR (O5).
In the flip side I remember a Navy Capt who was a prior Corpsman. He was the CO of one of my Hospital commands. He was the total opposite of the LCDR.
He was approachable and knew his Sailors by name. He loved to people advance and achieve. He motivated us and wanted us Petty Officers to lead and mentor the junior Corpsmen. The command moral was high.
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