Posted on Mar 10, 2014
CMSgt Mark Schubert
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I've talked with many officers throughout my career. I've noticed most have the ability to effectively lead and guide enlisted members. Most (not all) of the officers I've seen who are truly among the best are prior enlisted. Do you think being enlisted contributes to the leadership effectiveness of officers?
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Responses: 109
MAJ Jim Woods
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I am one of those "prior enlisted" soldiers.  I think the only advantage I had over USMA-AFA-USNA-ROTC Junior officers was that I already knew what was going on and where to get answers to questions because of my prior experience.  By the time we reached 1st Lt. or Capt. we were all pretty equal. Most of them had a better grasp of the Field Grade Officer duties.  OCS prepared me for Platoon Leader and Company Commander positions.
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LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
10 y
Concur that any advantage gained by being a Mustang goes away by the time you hit CPT.
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CSM Michael Poll
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For me I have seen yes for some and no for others
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
CMSgt Mark Schubert
>1 y
I think this is true in most (if not all) cases, and there will always be exceptions, however - the I believe (as do many others based on the responses) that being prior enlisted contributes (in most cases) to the overall leadership effectiveness of the officer. With that said, I'm not saying being prior enlisted makes it "easy" to be an officer, I'm saying it helps. I also understand that each individual will have the opportunity to fail - and some take it (regardless of being prior enlisted or not) - but the simple fact that they have the enlisted experience already is at least a good indicator for success as an officer (past behaviour is the best indication to future behaviors)
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SSG Mike Angelo
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Do prior enlisted make better officers? I believe that it is situational. I will go with a PFC's ingenuity and a Corporal's sense of urgency over a 2nd Lt's observation/overseer any day. The diverse environments and dynamics of small unit/team leadership would be more compatible with an officer with enlisted experience rather than fresh out of college types. IMO.


When they ETS and go to college and graduate, that 90 day wonder, Officer Basic Course, OBC can be a culture shock as compared to their previous enlisted basic or marine boot camp and enlisted life styles, niche and language. 


I believe that the prior enlisted now offficer have alot to bring at the table; knowledge in the NCO support chain, health and welfare programs, single servicemember living, and military dependent issues. My thing is that one cannot have their cake and eat it too...meaning, like NCOs, they are not one of the troops anymore. This can be a tough transition for some. Mentoring, coaching, professional development training all play into the totally new and transitioned enlisted to officer servicemember.  






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MGySgt Rick Tyrrell
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No. An officer is a person, an enlisted is also a person. What you learn as you grow makes you better if you retain that knowledge. Then use said knowledge for good.
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CPT Special Forces Officer
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I may be prejudiced, but I believe so. Of course both my father and I were mustang officers as was my father in law (still a Marine at 96). I don't know whether that is still true, but most enlisted I know weren't as badly affected by the "everyone gets a trophy" syndrome.
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Easy question. Yes and no. The famous "it depends" enters the equation. The Marines referred to them as 'Mustangs'. If the Army had a corresponding term, I've forgotten what it was. But really the answer is, it depends upon the individual.
1LT Rich Voss
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I come from that "weird" time of Viet Nam and the Cold War. By "weird", I mean that a person (such as myself) could have absolutely NO college, other than advanced/college prep high school courses and become an officer at age 18 or 19. So, I was drafted, enlisted to get my choice of schools, got to Armor OCS at around 5 1/2 months in and was fortunate enough to graduate. Did that "snapshot" of initial infantry training and being enlisted make me a better officer ? Doubt it. I was driven to be "better'" by how I was raised, what I studied, and how physically fit I was long before I got to the Army. In my fairly long life I've met many people that "thought" they could do something as well/better than someone else for any number of reasons. And until they actually try it, succeed at it, and look back at having actually done it....should probably shut the heck up.
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LTC John Griscom
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I have seen various examples of examples of officers with prior enlisted service. Worked for two four-stars who came up through the ranks. Also saw several that never really made the grade.
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Capt Daniel Goodman
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Edited >1 y ago
I read what's here, so far as I could, and I completely understand the various reactions I'd seen to what you'd asked...that being said, I've answered stuff like this, so far as I could, when I've seen such threads, however, I'll try to do so again here, so far as I'm able, as I do have a point I'd care to make, to the extent possible, OK? I was Army ROTC, then went USAF OTS right after, instead, without having been prior enlisted...I trained while at OTS with many prior enlisted, from all svcs, and, pretty much uniformly, they all, as a rule, tended to adjust, at least from what I could see, far more readily to the role, than I did, God knows, and I actually had to go through the whole thing basically twice before I'd been allowed to finish, having been recycled once. There is truth that individual maturity does have a great deal to do with whether one is suited to go straight to commissioned, or warrant...however, and I am entirely serious about this...in any large bureaucratic admin organization like a svc, things just simply don't always go right, or, at the very least, in the fashion those joining either expect, or anticipate...one guy, for example, as I'd read recently, was in the very next class after mine, he eventually finished out, I'd read, as an O-10, and yeah, that's a true story, I did read it...now, having said that, and, having had virtually everything humanly possible go wrong when I went in, working for all the wrong people, in the wrong place, for all the wrong reasons, I quite literally needed my head virtually pounded into concrete pavement, figuratively, to realize that there just were some things I wasn't going to be able to change, no matter how much I nagged, pleaded, begged, or groveled...those whom I'd seen of those enlisted before OTS, I think, managed to grasp that way earlier than I did...that's why I'm saying, in retrospect, that being prior enlisted helped those I'd seen, and could only serve to help those who'd go for such programs, honest...my wife's Dad had been a corporal in WW2, when he got accepted to the Army Field Artillery OCS at Ft Sill, after he'd been in a cpl of yrs, I'd found out...he got a Bronze with "V" for walking through a German minefield, then standing out in the open with the artillery battery he'd commanded as the Germans were shelling with the 90th Div, the "Tough Hombres", attached to 3rd Army under Gen. Patton...now, once I'd read that, I'd realized I was pretty close to right...had I been more fortunate, had I been where I'd hoped, and had wanted, then, yeah, maybe I'd have been more ready for that...honestly, I'd like to think so, of course, though, truthfully, I don't know, which'll always nag at me...however, knowing as much as I do after having spent as long as I have around the svcs and the VA, having been through two training programs, I'd have to reluctantly say yeah, having been enlisted, if only to have had time to have acclimated properly beforehand, would've been preferable, I think, to having dived into the deep end of the pool head first, with virtually zero prep ahead of time, as I'd found out was the case, honest...those are my thoughts about the whole thing, such as they are, for whatever they might be worth, OK?
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Capt Daniel Goodman
Capt Daniel Goodman
>1 y
And please understand...I trained under very good ROTC and OTS faculty, honest...I worked under some of the very best active duty and civil service there were, doing really serious work, my unit CO was a Vietnam war hero I got to sit with for an hour once, who seriously straightened out my head, I can assure all of you, I met him as an O-6, he'd been due to pin on O-7, received a DFC for having flown 400+ O-2 FAC combat missions in Vietnam...the PMS of my ROTC program, and most of the APMS faculty, were all Vietnam vets, my PMS was an absolutely brilliant mil historian...I assure you, I completely follow the gist of the question, and, as one who didn't have it all go right, I honestly say yeah, in serious retrospect, enlisted first, for all the reasons I gave...I very nearly enlisted out of high school, and would've likely had I not gotten USAF OTS after I couldn't finish Army ROTC...in many regards, had I taken more time, not rushed, done grad school, planned it all out, without leaping impulsively the first chance I got, I "might've" gotten it all right...however, I didn't which is precisely why I'm saying that enlisted first, or, maybe, also, a state defense force (SDF) first, even if it's not the ideal approach, or Guard or Reserve first while in school, as enlisted, might actually be the best approach, honest, guys, OK?
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CPL Earl Kochis
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A good officer is determined by that particular individual and how open their mind is to learning and advice from those around them!
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