Posted on Jun 30, 2014
SFC Intelligence Analyst   Atl
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The Supreme Court backed Hobby Lobby in their challenge against the mandate to provide contraceptive care. What do you think.
Posted in these groups: Obamacare logo Obamacare2c8c4d26 Supreme Court
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SFC Intelligence Analyst   Atl
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I have now read both the Majority and dissenting opinions released by SCOTUS. I do agree with the majority decision.

For me it comes down to choice and personal responsibility where contraceptives are concerned. A lot of people will jump up and down and scream "women's rights" and "women's health" etc. To them I say that they have the right to not have sex. They have the right to make the man wear a condom when having sex. IMHO they DO NOT have the right to shirk responsibility and expect others to pick up the pieces when they drop the ball.
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SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Gerhard S.
10 y
Maj. Dews.... neither Viagra nor vasectomies cause Abortions to occur.
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SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Gerhard S.
10 y
SSG Spencer, there is a third option. Pay for the uncovered medication oneself.
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SSG William Patton
SSG William Patton
10 y
Major, the ruling only covered the morning after spontsneous abortion drugs and IUD devices. There are about 16 forms of birth control we the tax payer still must pay for. Yet the liberal women are still unhappy because they cannot get us to pay for their spontaneous abortions. My advice is keep their legs closed or use what is available. I had to pay for my own vascetomy and Cialis, which is $32 a pill. I'm sorry if I am a little pissed at these irresponsible assholes that make up the current generation. If you do the crime, you do the time. If you commit a stupid behavior, do like I did, pay for it yourself.
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CPT Battery Commander
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MAJ Ian Dews,

Viagra is used to treat a medical condition in which the body physically cannot function the way it is supposed to. ED leads to chronic depression. ED is likely the result of prostate conditions, or phsychological trauma, also can be from specific medications.
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MSG Wade Huffman
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I actually took the time to read the ruling (and the dissenting opinion) this morning and I do agree with the decision. I also agree with the decision on Harris v. Quinn (although that ruling has a very narrow basis).
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SFC Intelligence Analyst   Atl
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I just scanned through the dissenting opinion.... First I will caveat by saying, I already disagree with most of what comes out of Justice Ginsburg's mouth. Second, part of her dissent (coincidently most people's argument) is that as a corporation (for profit) they are not people therefor not entitled to certain rights etc. I contend that as I privately held business, that business has several rights. Chief among them, to operate as the owner(s) see fit (within the law of course). The RFRA 1993 which is referenced many times by both opinions does apply. Other than that one specific item, Justice Ginsburg is very broad in her argument as to why the SCOTUS was wrong on this decision. I have often said and heard that when someone has lost or is losing an argument, the back away from facts and figures and rely on broad statements and emotion.
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LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
10 y
I have seen a number of meme's with the "It's not my boss's business..." protesting this decision. I take the opposite viewpoint. When you are requiring your boss to pay for your medical care, it becomes his business (within reason) to know what he is paying for. On the flip side though, owners should be upfront and fully disclose what they will and will not pay for as part of a benefits package to an employee. And at the end of the day, employees have a choice of who they will or will not work for.
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SSG Human Resources Specialist
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"The result isn't that surprising considering the Court's current ideological makeup. I'm glad they kept it narrowed to closely held corporations and apparently only applying it to contraception. However, I'm troubled to see that the Court offered no legitimate argument as to why a businesses could not also prohibit blood transfusions, or discriminate in hiring based on their religious beliefs."
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SSG General Services Technician And State Vehicle Inspector
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LTC Paul Labrador , very well said. I find it very surprising (or maybe just hypocritical) that many of these people consistently state and demand that others (like employers) have no business to be involved in their own healthcare decisions (and other things) yet they loudly proclaim the same people must pay for it. That is very strange indeed. What's even more bizarre is the fact they believe it's a right to be provided healthcare insurance by others especially employers. This is totally false. It's a privilege and benefit NOT an entitlement. It is up to the employer on how and what they will cover. It is up to the employee whether to accept their compensation package offer. If one doesn't like it then they can get another job elsewhere. Last time I checked NO ONE was forced to work somewhere, especially Hobby Lobby. The caveat with my last sentence is, of course, unless the person is a slave which is totally wrong anyways.
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SGT John Phillips
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Yes, I agree with the Supreme Court. I think it's sad than many people don't realize exactly what that ruling was. Even the article cited is highly misleading. Hobby lobby has in no way refused to provide contraception, it only refused after the fact contraception.
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SSG General Services Technician And State Vehicle Inspector
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Exactly. Many are deliberately twisting the ruling to mean one thing when it's not.
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SSG Fire Support Specialist
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I agree with hobby lobby and the bottom line is they should be able to choose what health insurance they provide if an employee does not like it they are free to either go elsewhere for employment or they can pay for their own private medical insurance.
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SSG Robin Rushlo
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I can not believe how many adult on RALLY POINT can not read and understand. First, this ruling allows Hobby Lobby to opt out of 4 types of birth control. They still supply 16 others for their employees.

WOW I just can not believe such BS, and WAR on Women crap is posted here and other place.

Example means if you a woman want the day after birth control pill and you work for HOBBY LOBBY you have to pay for it yourself. If you want the daily pill or 15 other kind of birth control and work for hobby lobby it is paid for.

READ and understand.
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SSG Vernon Hartnett
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Hobby Lobby have already been providing contraceptive care through their provided insurance. What they didn't want to pay for was the "day after pill" or the abortion pill, which is against their policies and beliefs as a company deeply rooted in Christian beliefs. I support them and am glad the Supreme Court backed them, even though it should have never have gone that high up in the justice system.
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1LT Shawn McCarthy
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In our society we have determined that we will not force someone to commit a sin in accordance with their belief system as long as there is not an overwhelming detriment to society.
The threshold of "deeply held religious beliefs" isn't something that you can just fake.

Understand that most religions do not differentiate between business personal conduct as it pertains to sin.
Commit a sin and be held accountable for the consequences.

It is unacceptable and immoral to force an individual, by way of his or her ownership in a closely held business, to sin against their belief structure, simply for the convenience of a voluntarily employed individual.

You consider benefits when you pursue civilian employment.
If that small shop run by Christian Scientists doesn't meet your needs in the benefit department, go elsewhere.
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SSgt Ressie Mull
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At some point you have to be able to stand behind the beliefs on your company. You have a choice as to whether you stay with a company or not. This will draw a lot of debate for many days to come.
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SFC Drill Sergeant
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I have to agree with Hobby Lobby. I am not responsible for you getting pregnant, so why should I have to pay to murder your child. If its from Rape then the child can be born and the given up for adoption. If you don't want to have the child, they make the day after pill take it and be done with the pregnancy. You pay for it. I am responsible for catching the perpetrator and see that he pays for his actions. When I say catch, I mean I pay the Police salaries and they have a duty to perform to protect you from such assaults. I know all can not be prevented but the woman has specific duties to perform by watching where she is and what she is doing. Lock the doors on car, home and Motel rooms, don't flirt with men in Bars. Know who you are with! Etc. Confucius say Rape impossible, Woman run faster with dress up than man with pants down. What I am getting at is, get a license, carry a weapon be trained and prepared to use it to protect yourself. If I see an attack I will get involved and I am armed! I will do all I can once again to protect the innocent and their rights, even if it means my death. I at least have tried and usually win!
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SSG General Services Technician And State Vehicle Inspector
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MAJ Carl Ballinger , well said. I have two questions regarding abortion. Anyone may answer.

Regarding what is in the womb:
1) Is it human?
2) Is it alive?

Can anyone truly and honestly answer both questions using science?.
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CPT Battery Commander
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I was under the impression that if a rape victim sought medical attention, then the hospital could elect to provide emergency contraception. I don't think cost would be a factor in this case. The woman would have to make a decision based on her position on abortion. I find it VERY hard to believe that rape victim would deny emergency contraception based on the cost of it, or whether it was covered by insurance.
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SSG Food Service Specialist
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SSG (Join to see) Absolutely he/she is alive and human. Any one can put their own spin on what they consider to be alive but my personal belief is that it is a human being. I used to be Pro-choice until I saw my daughters heart beat at 4 weeks. I am of the same mind frame as MAJ Carl Ballinger that abortion is murder there are no circumstances which make it ok either. I wonder what are the actual statistics of raped women who are pregnant. I am betting they are not a huge number. Hobby Lobby is a business started by people who hold a certain belief about life and they shouldn't be made to change their beliefs because our society wants to appease the minority.
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SSG General Services Technician And State Vehicle Inspector
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SSG (Join to see), very nice response. I too believe ALL abortion is murder and there are ZERO circumstances that makes it okay. I have yet to see anyone who supports abortion be able to prove otherwise. I ask them to logically, scientifically, and honestly answer my two questions above and most can't. Some eventually answer and realize the truth.
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SGM Retired
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This is about America's favorite political topic, who is going to pay for something I want? It goes from people demanding Hobby Lobby to pay for what they want to MIT health economist Johnathan Gruber, who can be watched saying:

“This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure [the Congressional Budget Office] did not score the mandate as taxes,” Gruber said in one 52-second clip. “If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. OK, so it’s written to do that. In terms of risk-rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in – you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed.”

Gruber then trumpeted the value of a “lack of transparency” — and called American voters stupid. “Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage,” Gruber said. “And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical for the thing to pass.”

Critical for those who think that the government has the right to reach into your pocket to pay political favors.

Rubbers are cheap. The pill is cheap. Abstinence is free. I don't care what you choose, as long as you don't demand that I pay for your choice.
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