Posted on Sep 8, 2017
Do you believe counseling soldiers has better results than making them do PT?
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I've noticed that soldiers are always different especially when taking punishment. But with the army going away from "smoke sessions" I've noticed a drastic drop in discipline in soldiers. The new generation does not care about counseling statements in my opinion, and the leadership is so focused on kicking them out instead of molding them into better people and better soldiers. Thoughts???
Leadership
Leadership Development
Counseling
Physical Training
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 175
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As a Drill Sgt I never laid hands on a Trainee, I wanted to, don't get me wrong. The "Front leaning rest position " gets attention.
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Another strategy I used is putting a Soldier on staff duty or CQ on the weekend that has made those soldiers shape up
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I believe you have to have tough, high standards. Individual standards should start the day you raise your right hand and swear in. I have heard the arguments you are only a trainee in basic. I say this, you are a soldier when you get off that bus and have to deal with those drill sergeants. Shut your mouth, do as your told. You don't have a damn choice. The army is not a democracy. Their are rules and regs and whether you like them or agree with them is not in your contract. Do your job, keep seeking self improvement. If you get out, leave knowing deep down inside you were the best damn whatever the army had while you were in.
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SGT Andrew Dejesus
No but as a leader your responsible for doing the best you can for your soldier. If the mindset is to just let them grow the way they are if they are a shit bag then what kind of goals are you setting them up to accomplish.
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Cpl Rc Layne
Human personalities are in place by age six or seven. If someone has proven themselves to be a shitbag, get rid of him or her. As unpleasant as it may appear to be, as a NCO, your job is to protect your troops from the influence of shitbags, and to protect the investment the taxpayers made in all of you.
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I would take a smoking before I gave up my money anytime. I would have to say that some counseling is effective. For me, I could do PT all day and laugh about later (I still remember the pain), but when I was counseled by certain NCO's or Officers that I respected and looked up to, it had a profound effect on me.. So I believe that if a soldier looks up to you and respects you a counseling can be really effective. In my times I noticed that a combination of the two was the most effective.
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Admittedly, I'm much more old school, but on the spot correction works for most mistakes a troop would make. You drop 'em, explain why you dropped 'em, and continue on mission. If there is a recurrent issue, you start the paperwork trail. Both have their place but, from my perspective, there is nothing wrong with dropping a soldier for minor infractions.
As a side note, I do remember wall-to-wall counseling as well (also effective in certain situations).
As a side note, I do remember wall-to-wall counseling as well (also effective in certain situations).
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I remember as a company commander our battalion commander actually counseled, in writing, our battalion CSM about something or another because they did not get along and could never agree on anything...supposedly the CSM said something along the lines of, "What...does this mean I ain't gonna make E10?" I think that a lot of younger Soldiers have that same mentality...except there is a hell of a big difference between an E4/E5 and an E9...and the thing is, PT can break that mentality.
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SGT Andrew Dejesus
I understand, I remember when I was a private coming back from Afghanistan we were going through rsrp and the sgm came out asking who was in charge then my commander stepped up saying Hey sgm this is my company is there anything I can help you with and hey looked at him in front of everyone and said I'm not talking to you sir we run this here not officers. It was a big impact and completely caught me off guard and everyone was suprised
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SGT Andrew Dejesus
Yes that type of action is completely uncalled for no matter who or what rank that is. Completly disrespect a commander in front of his soldiers. The major that was there had to hold our commander back cause he was so heated
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So everyone has good points and both seem vital and play an important role in the foundation of building soldiers, so should we train ncos like myself more on how to properly give a counseling in detail because in my opinion a Good counseling statement should be by standard with the format but that's it everything else should be different per soldier but of course everyone knows that, or should we train ncos more on showing restraint when smoking and providing purpose? Train them on how not to let emotions intrude on the training they are giving their soldier?
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SGT Dave Tracy
I'm rather curious if people who skew anti-corrective training/pro-counseling tend to come from soft-skill MOSs where the use of corrective training isn't generally as freely dispensed as in combat arms.
That's a NOT an inference or value judgment (some might knee-jerk react to that) I'm just curious if where people "come from" MOS-wise affects one's believe in the usefulness of physical corrective training.
An equal hypothesis might be those who skew against smoke sessions may come from combat arms and didn't like their experience with its frequent use.
If there is no correlation, so be it. If so, what might be the causal factor?
Just curious.
That's a NOT an inference or value judgment (some might knee-jerk react to that) I'm just curious if where people "come from" MOS-wise affects one's believe in the usefulness of physical corrective training.
An equal hypothesis might be those who skew against smoke sessions may come from combat arms and didn't like their experience with its frequent use.
If there is no correlation, so be it. If so, what might be the causal factor?
Just curious.
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SGT Andrew Dejesus
That's a good point Sgt Dave Tracy, the background of an Mos in my opinion most defenently would have an effect. However for myself in combat arms, I was smoked ALL the time as a private because I was the only there that was new. I would still choose pt over counseling any day. I mean if you don't do anything to hurt them your only building up their muscles and making them stronger
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Counseling and extra training go hand in hand... that said, extra training may be unpleasant, however it is not punishment. If your extra training isn't focused on helping someone meet the standard, you are not doing it right.
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Well iv never been counsiled negatively iv been in for a year and usually get a free pt session with my team leader i say it probably varies person to person but as an individual pain and repitition will teach me quicker than writing on paper
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