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Posted on Jan 25, 2014
Do you believe our current Basic combat training needs to be revamped?
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With all our experience as a military why is our current Basic Combat Training still not reflecting the needs of our military. We have added some simple things like convoy operations, and IED recognition but the rifle ranges are basically the same as when i joined in 2002. I am currently assigned to a Battalion that is changing the way we train a little at a time and the results are amazing. simple changes to how we train the Soldiers in the classroom, and how we handle their learning have made some significant changes in the the trains knowledge and performance. Unfortunately we are the only ones doing this and its a shame more units are not following our example.
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Basic Training
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Basic Training Training
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 17
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Honestly, I think that BCT is too broad of a course. BCT should focus on the basic things that need to be accomplished to make you a functional soldier. Imagine if you were sent a soldier that was and expert marksman, 270+ PT and knew how to talk and function in a military environment( i.e saluting, basic D&C). Everything after that should be unit training. I am in aviation so room clearing, IEDs and convoys are absolute waste of time and energy for 90% of soldiers in that branch. I say strip out everything besides shooting, PT, customs and courtesies and D&C. Take the money saved and give it to the AIT units to conduct better job training.
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MSG (Join to see)
You sound like a Drill Sergeant :) And if your not you should be one. You hit the nail on the head!
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SFC (Join to see)
i tell my recruits that besides all the events they complete I am looking for a Soldier that can operate as a member of a team, show up motivated every day, is a self starter, has discipline, shows a understanding of military customs and courtesies, and is always willing to learn. Living up to the Army values is a learned trait. Most of us grew up with different values so as long as they show a honest attempt to learn our ways I am happy. all of the other stuff like a great PT score and marksmanship can be continuously worked on.
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<p>Go back to basics and I don't mean bayonets and boot shinning. We are not training Rangers or Paratroopers here. This is Basic Combat Training. There are a million good idea's floating around here and I have to take those good ideas every 10 weeks and change our training plan and it is frustrating!! Why do Soldiers need to do range cards as a private? Why do we teach NBC but then when we take them in gas chamber they keep there mask on? Why do we teach Advanced Rifle Marksmanship to a 60 man Platoon with only 15 pairs of NVG's with 15 sets of optics. Why do we continue to throw hand grenades? What are the real chances of a 42A even being issued a hand grenade. Who can honestly put a pro mask on in 9 seconds. Those are just some things to think about. If you want that old school physically fit soldier who is disciplined and ready to train then take all this extra crap out and go back to letting the Drill Sergeant be the Drill Sergeant.<br></p><p><br></p><p> </p>
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MSG (Join to see)
Its sad sir but its true. If Private Snuffy has a hurt Shoulder, and he says Drill Sergeant my shoulder hurts I can't wear my gear to train today. Well I have two options: 1. Shut up Soldier put your gear on and train, you will be ok. Or 2. Ok Soldier go to sick call and get a profile and sit out training today. Instead of training go watch weapons or sit in shade. I will always pick number 2 over 1. Why? Because if I push the Soldier to hard, and he really get's hurt then my Army career is over due to trainee abuse. Any smart Drill Sergeant will coddle a Private these days then they will risk putting joe in an uncomfortable position and getting in trouble for it. When your Chain Of Command takes a Privates word over his Drill Sergeants then your power base is broken, there for you see privates doing what they want, with Drill Sergeants trying to AVOID the trail or just do there time as best they can and move on to the next assignment.
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SPC (Join to see)
Sir, I went to "Relaxin' Jackson" for BCT and I never saw pizza or soda. We did adhere to the training doctrine in terms of what we could or could not do in a certain heat level but we never canceled the training we had planned, it was more along the lines of "take off your IBAs" or "loosen your sleeves and untuck your pants." There were plenty of times we had AGRs in the rain, it sucked but it made me feel pretty hooah so I wasn't complaining. I do think the Army has gotten a little soft with what they do or do not allow inside of training but I think your experience may have been an isolated event, Sir. Furthermore I am in agreement with you on the comment of "recruits being 'nudged' into soldiers." It is disheartening that the standard for both training and recruits has dropped, more or less I am still proud to put on the uniform, Sir. I hope I have shown you that while the standard has lowered, your situation doesn't accurately represent BCT in whole. Maybe my company was the outlier though and I'm wrong!
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As a former Drill Sergeant and current First Sergeant I say absolutely! The Army is and always will be consistently changing and adapting to it's mission and the needs of our Army. Changing TSPs is often a lengthy and often frustrating function of TRADOC but as always when units recognize good training and the needs to adapt training to focus on the current operational environment TRADOC is more than willing to make TSP and POI changes. Reading your changes, which are great ones with the Army winding down operations in Afghanistan do you think we should continue to train convoy live fires and IED identification TTPs?
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SFC (Join to see)
1SG,
I absolutely agree that as the operations in Afghanistan wind down that our overall training drive needs to be changed and updated. However, IEDs and insurgent activity are not going away. I feel it is important to still main training on these aspects but not as a main focus. It has been a decade if not more since we've seen any kind of Mechanized/Conventional warfare. Since that was not been something we were facing, all the training fell to the waste side and yet again we almost to the point where we are reactively trying to play catch up. My only fear is that we will repeat history and the lessons learned in the last 13 years will be forgotten.
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SFC - The Army's not alone in struggling with its BCT program. Btw - which company are you with down at Jax? I head there later this week.
http://www.stripes.com/news/us/in-survey-lackland-drill-instructors-rip-leaders-say-they-fear-recruits-1.285971
http://www.stripes.com/news/us/in-survey-lackland-drill-instructors-rip-leaders-say-they-fear-recruits-1.285971
In survey, Lackland drill instructors rip leaders, say they fear recruits
A survey of basic-training instructors conducted during the worst sex scandal in Air Force history revealed a sharp distrust of senior commanders at Joint Base San Antonio-Lackland and a widespread fear of recruits.
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Sgt Randy Hill
First sgt it is really sad that our societal norms have created this kind of mess for any drill instructor. Without a doubt the actions of a few have compounded this problem to a new scale. When I was at Lackland males were instructed by males and females by females. Do you think these scandals are rooted in a abuse of power?
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I find this question a bit funny, if we look back at WWI, and WWII you were basically pushed through basic with very basic shooting skills, and some physical fitness and thrown to war. Did we not win? Then again back then there weren't as many rules and beating the standing nail worked much better than paper and pen.
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SFC Welch,
I was in Iraq in 2004-2005 and ask my peers this question upon returning from that deployment I was DA selected to Drill Sergeant School and went on to be a Drill Sergeant at Fort Leonard Wood. There were great changes to all training like you have mentioned but as a Combat Engineer (12B's) my soldiers never road in the vehicles during that period I was performing Drill Sergeant duties. Since Fort Leonard Wood is the home of the Engineer and Route Clearance is what the majority of 12B's do now I always fought to have those vehicles brought to us so these soldiers could see them before they hit MTOE Units.
Which never happened. I just hope now units pay attention to what we have learned from this 14 years at war to implement new ways to train as we fight.
Thanks for posting this.
V/R
1SG Haro
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SFC, I see a lot of great suggestions on here on what to add or what to take away but I think the most important issue is the inability to get all the training done in the correct way. Lets stop training to time and start training to standard again.
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SFC (Join to see)
my company has never had a problem holding the standard. if you don't waste time as a trainer and have a good solid plan you can conduct many difficult training events even in the sam day is possible.
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SPC (Join to see)
I wish I was in your company SFC! Our planning could have been done a little better and as a result of that we didn't do some of the training events we were supposed to in BCT.
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Use your post CSMs open door policy, he was a Drill Sergeant see where he stands.
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SFC (Join to see)
oh were doing all of these changes already sir. just wanted to see what others thought.
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I think if we're really going to be adaptive to the current environment we should add simple things like KLE's, and providing security for them into some of the curriculum at OSUT. I've been surprised on both of my deployments how much more time we spent doing that as opposed to raids, ambushes, clearing bunkers, etc...
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1SG (Join to see)
SGT Jaynes,
You have a good point! You have to try to communicate with them.
V/r
1SG Haro
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