Posted on May 4, 2016
COL Sam Russell
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DOD directive 1344.10 states:

-A member of the Armed Forces on active duty may:
4.1.1.3. Join a partisan or nonpartisan political club and attend its meetings when NOT in uniform, subject to the restrictions of subparagraph 4.1.2.4. (See DoD Instruction 1334.1 (Reference (c).)

From the article "Racism Within West Point"
http://www.inthearenafitness.com/index.php/racism-within-west-point
Edited 8 y ago
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Responses: 238
SFC MLRS Automated Tactical Data Systems Specialist
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So if they were white cadets doing a German ww2 style salute would it be an extremist gesture? It's a posed picture they knew what they were doing someone needs to take action. I've seen enlisted Soldiers get hemmed up for trying to be funny and throwing gang signs while in uniform. What is the difference here the black lives matter movement has had more than a couple violent acts attributed to it and are a political movement. Further, I support the basic premise of the Black Lives matter movement however being a political movement when in uniform you can not endorse political movements. What kind of SH__storm would we see if these same Cadets showed up at a Trump rally in uniform?
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SFC MLRS Automated Tactical Data Systems Specialist
SFC (Join to see)
8 y
LTC Joseph George - Basic premise of black lives matter treat all people equally however like you have mentioned to many people have used it as a pulpit for hatred and racism not equality. When it first popped up I was not against it but when violence and threats to police officers occurred I knew that it had been corrupted. My ponderings have led me to wonder when people will learn that real social change occurs more often with peaceful demonstration than violence... Ghandi, MLK, and even Liberia for that fact. However as I am sure you know change is one thing and revolution another.
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SFC MLRS Automated Tactical Data Systems Specialist
SFC (Join to see)
8 y
CPT Ahmed Faried - Communist party 1922, Black Panther Movement, International Brigades, Hugo Chavez, Anarchist Black Cross, Communist Refoundation Party, Albanian, National Liberation Front, Librarians against DRM, Industrial Workers of the World and there are many others so in all regardless of whether they were showing support of Black Panthers or Librarians Against Digital Rights Mangement it is a political symbol that was adopted from an ancient sign of solidarity. They made a gaffe and just need counseling this should not effect the rest of their career as long as they take it as learning point of unintended consequences of their actions. The third and fourth order effects
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CPT Ahmed Faried
CPT Ahmed Faried
8 y
LTC Joseph George - " The movement is being supported by George Soros who hates the USA"

Sir....
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Maj Rob Drury
Maj Rob Drury
8 y
SFC (Join to see) -

"...but when violence and threats to police officers occurred I knew that it had been corrupted."

BLM was never "corrupted." The peaceful equality was a sham. They were POS thugs from the beginning.
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SFC Management
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1. So exactly what statement are they making?
2. According to the article they are making "behind closed doors statements". What statements are they making? Is it counter productive to good order and discipline?
3. And the big question is. Once they graduate/commission, and move out to units then what? Will there still be behind closed doors statements? And will it effect their duties and responsibilities as Commissioned Officers?

My understanding is that we (currently serving) Military are "supposed" to be as politically neutral while representing our respective branches, and the uniform that we wear. Am I mistaken?
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Sgt Edward Padget
Sgt Edward Padget
8 y
To their statement: They as a group of black women are stating they have persevered, "beat the odds" and are graduating from West Point. It's only black women in the photo because their plight and journey was obviously inclusive to only black women. White women who attend West Point have their own journey as well, but I'm not sure how they express their accomplishment, same for black men and all other minorities.
No idea on the behind closed door statement other than it's construed as a "Black Power" statement. Maybe they mean to say their own personal wherewithal their internal black power and fortitude pushed them through the experience?
After they graduate hopefully they will take their experiences and move on to become great officers in the military. I'm sure they'll always have a soft spot for those who are trying to better themselves and persevering.
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Maj Rob Drury
Maj Rob Drury
8 y
If the "journeys" of all cadets aren't essentially the same, it's a broken system. Welcome to the "Army of One."
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CPT Pedro Meza
CPT Pedro Meza
8 y
Sgt Edward Padget - Ishtar (English pronunciation /ˈɪʃtɑːr/; Transliteration: DIŠTAR; Akkadian:
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SGT Bryon Sergent
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I was called a racist once. Then I cleared it up. I do NOT hate an entire race. There are all kinds of PEOPLE I hate. Many different Races. I also hate broccoli, Most greens, besides mustard. So that makes me Prejudice. But as far a a racist, nope, I hate you, you you, you and especially you! I hate everyone equally!
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MSgt Daniel Harrison
MSgt Daniel Harrison
8 y
I totally agree with you Sgt Sergent. There are Black people I don't like as well as White, Asian, Mexicans, or whoever. And there are a lot of people of all races I love.
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SGT Bryon Sergent
SGT Bryon Sergent
8 y
MSgt Daniel Harrison - Well said Master Sergeant!
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LTC Stephen F.
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That is interesting that my classmate Brenda Sue Fulton has waded into the fray about this picture SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL She was speaking "an alum" not in any leadership capacity.
As far as a claim that this is an old corps photo, the only things old corps about it is the location in front of one of the older buildings and the crossed sabers which are not included in this version of the picture.
The raised fists were something associated with the black power movement of the 1960s and then became more radicalized when the Black panthers adopted that pose. The full dress gray uniform was modified by 1976 when I entered the US Military Academy as part of the class of 1980 which was the first to include women - so uniforms had to be modified.
There has been a lot of discussion about this picture among my classmates with some jokingly indicating it honors Michael Jackson.
USMA cadets like others in military uniform are prohibited from making political statements in the uniform of the US military or attending political events in uniform unless on official duty such as MPs, SPs, etc. Prohibited statements include what we do while in uniform. The Nazi salute is an example of something which brings discredit upon the military if somebody performs it in public.
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
8 y
LTC Stephen F. thanks for the broad perspective, in hindsight of the history. Well said and profoundly stated. Thanks for the personal touch and first point of view from the USMA as a Cadet.
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SSgt Jim Gilmore
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I've read the other article from facebook. Indeed well written and with some possibly valid points. I say possibly as I have not had the honor of attending the USMA at West Point or any other service school.

In the end it is only an attempt to justify the actions of others. I don't give a damn what color you are, what God you worship, who you sleep with, how you spend your money or anything else. The only thing(s) that matter are that you adhere to the established honor code as that represents your integrity. Without that, anything else is meaningless. You must perform to your utmost best. I don't care you are not a straight A student (I know I wasn't). As long as you gave it your all is what I look for in a cadet (Leader).

Your job as the new wave of officers is to learn your job, perform your job, be a leader. You are not there to voice your opposition to what you think is wrong (You can fight that through channels like everyone else). As one of America's next generation of leaders, you need to lead, not make excuses for someone else. There is no room for that. Like the old adage, Lead, Follow or get the hell out of the way.

If you wish to tackle anything you perceive as an injustice, do so on your own time and stop detracting from the reason you were allowed the opportunity to attend one of the most prestigious establishments of higher education and military leadership.

You can put lipstick on a pig but it doesn't change the fact it's still a pig. Suck it up cupcake, you can do this.
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CPO Frank Coluccio
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Violation of UCMJ? Don't know about that.
BUT, if it can be proven that it was a planned photo to show support to BLM, or and other political movement/figure, they would be violation of the "Hatch Act."
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LTC Management Analyst
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Edited 8 y ago
I see both sides of the issue. A lot have said this is black female unity. Yeah... I get that. But that defeats the purpose of being at West Point, one of the most prestigious clubs in the United States. You don't need unity there. You need to be part of a team. You've already accomplished something few others have, and many would kill for. Why set yourself apart? Same goes for the military as a whole. So personally, I find this unity argument silly.

The other side is the connection to Black Panthers. They are young and might not even be aware of the militant organization. They might associate that gesture with BLM. I am not up to speed whether they are using that as their gesture or not. Can't comment there.

The question here is of perception. What would the perception be if this were the Latino population at West Point throwing out a West Side symbol.

I think symbolism, gestures, whatever you want to call it, have no place at West Point, nor a need. Same goes for the Army as a whole. You are already part of a small family and group of like-minded individuals. The largest Fraternity in the country.

I suppose they were exactly what they are. Kids being kids. They will grow up soon, and fast.
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SPC Greg K.
SPC Greg K.
8 y
They're NOT kids....they are adults!!! Let stop treating them as such. They are old enough to know better no matter what the intent.
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LTC Management Analyst
LTC (Join to see)
8 y
SPC Greg K. - After re-reading... I will have to agree with you. Having not gone to West point, I read first classman and assumed they were first year. That would have made them around 18, and kids in my book. However, they are fourth years. This means they are all over 21 and should indeed have known better.
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SPC Greg K.
SPC Greg K.
8 y
Cpt. Mathews, even if they were 18 they are adults. In my opinion, "Kids" today need to start being held accountable for their actions as adults. Age 18 is the law. Now, yes, we all do "stupid" things growing up and I did a lot of stupid things while I was in college. I paid my way through school...(We Are...Penn State) However, it is no excuse to violate, ignore and disobey laws and policies, especially, when it comes to such a prestigious institution like West Point, which is the pinnacle of leadership for our Military. These grown "Women" NEED to be held at a higher standard then regular "kids" and an investigation needs to be done. If found that they indeed violated ANY law or policy (federal, state, local or institutional) then they need to held accountable....zero tolerance for racist behavior. If they are not held accountable then that opens the gates. What if a dozen white females were up there claiming "white power"? Sorry, for the rant....I hope fairness is accomplished here, I hate to see our Military men and women tarnished because of the actions of a few.
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LTC Self Employed
LTC (Join to see)
8 y
SPC Greg K. - True.. if women said they were for the preservation of the Confederate Wives or kids of America it would not fly at West Point.
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CAPT Kevin B.
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There's a lot of focus on the UCMJ here. When I was in Beast Barracks back in the day, there were many rules which go far beyond the UCMJ. The one that strikes me is anything that brings the Cadet Corps into disrepute. They take that very seriously. That would be in the eye of the beholder. So I don't know how it spins now vs. Class of '75 in which a number of one way air fares would be issued. The '68 Olympics would be very fresh in their minds. Just missing the gloves. And in honor of CPT Jack Durish I'll add they must be using that new deodorant "Pit Stop".
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CSM Charles Hayden
CSM Charles Hayden
8 y
CAPT Kevin B. Thank you for recalling those 1968 Olympic images. The photo in question is reminiscent of the pose that was so offensive to me!
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CPT Ahmed Faried
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Edited 8 y ago
Sir if they are indeed facing some kind of racism in West Point and I don't discount the possibility, then bringing attention to it is courageous. We are talking about it exactly because they chose to be pictured wearing the West Point uniforms.
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2LT Army Medical Student
2LT (Join to see)
8 y
CPT Ahmed Faried -

1) USMA must have a population that is statistically identical to the larger US population. For instance there were concentrated efforts to increase female candidates while I was there - its up to 25 ish% now I think. They earned their rings, plenty of others would have taken them. Agreed. I also was in the same platoon as one of the girls and know she is awesome. I think you can tell which way I lead on a national policy of affirmative action. That argument in the case of USMA is not sound, same with other places. Nothing is universally applicable.

2)That was a good article. It is hard to tell if someone is just crying racism today or if it actually occurred. That sounds like she went through some stuff. Wish I could have been there to stop that. I would not stand for some of those experiences she had, neither would my classmates. Woah.

Thanks for the post, best one for my thinking so far!
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
COL (Join to see)
8 y
CPT Ahmed Faried, I love this piece written by Ms. Tobin (didn't see her rank). Well put. I don't doubt for a second her statements. It concerns me that she put up with jokes and other BS that shouldn't be there, but the majority of her piece talked about the pressure she put herself under and the feelings that she was alone in a sea of white. I can understand her feelings as, for a short while was one of only 3 white kids in my elementary class in Georgia. There was no racism as far as I would describe since racism requires a power base, but I can identify with the pressure of feeling "outside." That being said, it's entirely internal, but real. That does not help or hurt the case at hand. Those issues, internal or external, do not form matters of mitigation for the violation of UCMJ...which is a matter for an investigation to determine. It's informative, but does not excuse actions prejudicial to good order and discipline. Period.
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CPT Ahmed Faried
CPT Ahmed Faried
8 y
2LT (Join to see) - Remaining silent in the face of an injustice is a tacit endorsement of it. So I'm heartened by your second response.
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CPT Ahmed Faried
CPT Ahmed Faried
8 y
COL (Join to see) - Sir I know the feeling haha. I was one of three black officers in IBOLC. I was the only black Infantry officer in my battalion as a PL and one of three black officers in the entire BN. Concerning the picture it isn't meant to be excusatory or otherwise. It only serves to provide other context, as in, why a group of female cadets in the prestigious school that is the USMA would have cause for complaints.
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SSG Dennis Grossmann
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Aren't they just Beyonce fans? Nothing will come of it, I'm almost willing to bet my truck on that.
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SGT Bryon Sergent
SGT Bryon Sergent
8 y
SSG Dennis Grossmann - LOL glad you said almost!
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SSG Dennis Grossmann
SSG Dennis Grossmann
8 y
Yeah I'd sure miss the anti-Prius 83 Chevy3/4 ton 383, 7 m.p.g. thundertruck.
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