Posted on May 4, 2016
Do you believe that these West Point first classman are violating the UCMJ by making a political statement while in uniform?
94K
1.65K
842
42
42
0
DOD directive 1344.10 states:
-A member of the Armed Forces on active duty may:
4.1.1.3. Join a partisan or nonpartisan political club and attend its meetings when NOT in uniform, subject to the restrictions of subparagraph 4.1.2.4. (See DoD Instruction 1334.1 (Reference (c).)
From the article "Racism Within West Point"
http://www.inthearenafitness.com/index.php/racism-within-west-point
-A member of the Armed Forces on active duty may:
4.1.1.3. Join a partisan or nonpartisan political club and attend its meetings when NOT in uniform, subject to the restrictions of subparagraph 4.1.2.4. (See DoD Instruction 1334.1 (Reference (c).)
From the article "Racism Within West Point"
http://www.inthearenafitness.com/index.php/racism-within-west-point
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 236
West Point Cadets are subject to UCMJ unlike ROTC Cadets who are only when on active duty for training.
This is clearly prejudicial to good order and discipline. It is clearly a political statement made in uniform. It is therefore a breech of the honor code and the UCMJ.
The reason they won't be disciplined as white cadets would for supporting an equally controversial white cause is the color of their skin.
We've trained our NCOs and Officers to look the other way when soldiers of a minority violate regulations and laws because of the stigma of the EO complaint that invariably immoderately follows any such charge. Doesn't have to be true, doesn't have to have any merit - just the complaint and the NCO or Officer will thereafter be scrutinized severely for every action.
Everything from braids, to make-up, to disrespect are overlooked regularly when committed by soldiers of color. I'm retired I have no one to whom I answer I can tell the truth I've seen it morph over the years to damn near impotence to correct minorities.
This is clearly prejudicial to good order and discipline. It is clearly a political statement made in uniform. It is therefore a breech of the honor code and the UCMJ.
The reason they won't be disciplined as white cadets would for supporting an equally controversial white cause is the color of their skin.
We've trained our NCOs and Officers to look the other way when soldiers of a minority violate regulations and laws because of the stigma of the EO complaint that invariably immoderately follows any such charge. Doesn't have to be true, doesn't have to have any merit - just the complaint and the NCO or Officer will thereafter be scrutinized severely for every action.
Everything from braids, to make-up, to disrespect are overlooked regularly when committed by soldiers of color. I'm retired I have no one to whom I answer I can tell the truth I've seen it morph over the years to damn near impotence to correct minorities.
(1)
(0)
So CSM I guess you would be equally appalled if a white Army Officer displayed a Confederate Flag in some fashion-A flag that represents slavery and racism to some
(1)
(0)
OK ... here is another view. It makes NO difference in what they intended the picture to be! It is the perception of what the picture means. I don't' care if its 1 of 16 or so photos. I don't care how hard life is/was on them. They are about to Graduate West Point which means they should be able to over come obstacles. An Perception is Reality!! Graduates from West Point are promoted first. West Point Graduates usually go on to Lead the Military. What would you say if it had been a bunch of young white male cadets all holding up Confederate flags? Their would be an OUTCRY to shake al of capital hill. The President would probably be on TV saying they had been removed from West Point. Stop dancing around the issue. What they did was wrong, offensive, ill-conceived, stupid and against regulation.
I personally, As a Military Member, find the photo offensive.
I personally, As a Military Member, find the photo offensive.
(1)
(0)
CSM Thomas McGarry
As offensive as I'm sure some minority members of the military find the Confederate flag to be-SSG I believe U R the one "dancing" around this issue. These have been several pictures posted on this blog of white cadets and Gen. Demsey with a raised fist yet you seem to be fixated on this picture
(1)
(0)
CW4 (Join to see)
Only if dressed as the ghosts of Christmas past (see Citadel cadets for reference). But seriously, when the folks waving the rebel flag are yelling N***** go back where you came from and the South Will Rise again (real life) it might be understandable why many people take a issue with the 'pride' thing . . .
(0)
(0)
Well there is officially no discipline, honor, self esteem, accountability, responsibility, good order or quality leadership at West Point. http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/05/11/16-west-point-cadets-raised-fist-photo-wont-be-punished.html?ESRC=army-a_160511.nl. This article shows how the superintendent cowered, was afraid to do the right thing in disciplining these cadets, it shows how the Army has become a less than quality service in which to serve. Liberalism has infected the Army so bad that leadership and regulations mean nothing. You can thank the press, the administration, congress, and a lack of concern from the leadership at West Point to do the right thing and stand firm on the core beliefs of the service. The West Point superintendent should be relieved, busted to the rank of 2LT and retired. I am appalled.

16 West Point Cadets in Raised-Fist Photo Won't Be Punished
The decision, days before they are due to graduate, found they didn't violate military rules limiting political activity.
(1)
(0)
CW4 (Join to see)
Then he'd also have to discipline the entire class of 2019 for making the same gesture in uniform. And everyone at the Beat Navy rally. And himself . . .
(0)
(0)
LTC Joseph George
Then lets rid the nation of its defense force, as discipline and good order are the mainstay with the core values;
Loyalty. Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. constitution, the Army, and other soldiers. ...
Duty. Fulfill your obligations. ...
Respect. Rely upon the golden rule. ...
Selfless Service. Put the welfare of the nation, the Army, and your subordinates before your own. ...
Honor. ...
Integrity. ...
Personal Courage.
You see if these mean nothing to the leadership, the new and upcoming leaders, then we do not need West Point, nor a military force. We can transcend into chaos and never move forward like we have in the past. They all should be disciplined as all the other soldiers were for making such statements. Right, wrong or indifferent, the good order has been placed in the background and it has led to poor decision making and no accountability or responsibility for ones actions. Damn the regulations, rules and laws, soon we will have nothing to worry about.
Loyalty. Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. constitution, the Army, and other soldiers. ...
Duty. Fulfill your obligations. ...
Respect. Rely upon the golden rule. ...
Selfless Service. Put the welfare of the nation, the Army, and your subordinates before your own. ...
Honor. ...
Integrity. ...
Personal Courage.
You see if these mean nothing to the leadership, the new and upcoming leaders, then we do not need West Point, nor a military force. We can transcend into chaos and never move forward like we have in the past. They all should be disciplined as all the other soldiers were for making such statements. Right, wrong or indifferent, the good order has been placed in the background and it has led to poor decision making and no accountability or responsibility for ones actions. Damn the regulations, rules and laws, soon we will have nothing to worry about.
(0)
(0)
They do not deserve to graduate and become our future Officers. Now lets examine who is the racist???
(1)
(0)
Maj Rob Drury
Nothing at all racist about it. More importantly, it's not a question of what they "deserve;" it's an issue of qualifications. A senior academy cadet within days of commission should be expected to possess a level of judgement far superior to that shown in this incident. Lives and mission are dependent upon it.
(0)
(0)
BLM isn't a hate group it was created because Cops used last resort first but other cases it wasn't used even when the fuy killed 9 they walked him out with a bullet proof vest. I don't endorse racism, I been in 15.5 yrs and served beside ppl of many backgrounds. Plus being from Alabama and act up in School and the teacher pop yo ass ppl didn't care of the color you just get yo ass whoop because the "Teacher" whoop yo butt.
(1)
(0)
CSM Thomas McGarry
You know what kills me about BLM? Over 95% of the murders committed against black citizens were committed by other blacks yet that movement seen to be entirely silent about those killings. Any time a citizen is wrongly killed by a police officer it certainly should concern everyone but in the grand scheme of things it happens much less often than the other types of murders.
(0)
(0)
CW4 (Join to see)
CSM Thomas McGarry - Many see and hear what they want from BLM. Part of the discussion is the absence of urgency to address those black on black crimes as well. Essentially, the societal message that black lives are literally 'worth less' than others. Of course that broader conversation is drowned out as the media loves a food fight and the political poles just love a fight!
(0)
(0)

West Point: Cadet photo was inappropriate, but not political
The 16 cadets face no punitive action but there is one consequence they face.
(1)
(0)
I understand no disciplinary action will be taken.
(1)
(0)
Well it appears that the "Fist in the Air" symbolism itself has a different meaning when displayed by different races. Due to the fact that they were able to obtain several pictures of white cadets at various events displaying the same symbol and referring to it as "celebratory" , these cadets were able to use the same defense, regardless of what their intent may have been. Convenience or lucky? Next thing you know people in uniform who are caught displaying the Nazi salute will say they were just waving goodbye and someone just timed the picture right.
(1)
(0)
CW4 (Join to see)
Politically minded rabble rousers made an assumption without any investigation. The controversy itself is an issue as doing anything that causes controversy (even unintentionally) is itself a problem.
(0)
(0)
Looks like the PC police win again and the cadets saved their butts by lying about it...since the tweet comments they made apparently do not count. Of course the Army wanting to increase minority attendance at the academy couldn't have influenced their decision at all...
(1)
(0)
CSM Thomas McGarry
So Major one question were you actually present so can vouch that actually lied about the meaning of their raised fist? I see pictures posted on RallepPoint showing Gen Demsey and others who happen to be white with raised fists so tell me what is the meaning of their raised fists???
(0)
(0)
Maj James Tippins
CSM Thomas McGarry - Sorry I said it. I don't have the tweet they commented with the picture...and it has been deleted from the group they sent it to. I only read about the tweet content from another black woman. The cadets clearly got away with this one.
One thing that amazes me here is the people who cannot see what they were actually doing. Simply incredible.
And I won't be commenting anymore on this subject.
One thing that amazes me here is the people who cannot see what they were actually doing. Simply incredible.
And I won't be commenting anymore on this subject.
(0)
(0)
I think it more of a Civil Rights matter. They know the crap they'll go thru as women and minorities.
(1)
(0)
I sincerely hope that this display was just a poor judgement by group of young spirited educated young women proud of both their heritage and their accomplishments. I do not want to be judged by a few of the things I did as a 21 year old SSG. If however, a proper investigation reveals that their action was a social / political statement, their poor judgement brings with it a different reaction which may not be so strong to prohibit their graduation and commissioning but should have consequences none the less.
(1)
(0)
Maj Rob Drury
But they're not 21-year-old SSGs; they are senior military officer candidates. They are at the point of completion of the most thorough, advanced military training program our tax dollars can buy. They're not kids, or at least they shouldn't be. This is NOT about punishment; it's about (to put it in bitch-ass-liberal EEO language) bona fide occupational qualifications. If they make such poor judgement calls now, they'll make them 10 years from now. If anything, they are to be commended for pointing out what a mistake Uncle Sam made in their selection before they cause a lot of subordinates to die on their watch. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like that's what's going to happen.
(0)
(0)
The potential that I see in these warriors, they should be honed, trained and taught to fight and take no prisoners then armed well then set free on ISIS. I wish I was their instructor, you guys can keep the pomp and ceremony West Pointers I would gladly serve with these future leaders.
(1)
(0)
we all do stupid things when we're young and old, but this really, these young ladies and future officers need to be sat down and counselled, i found this offensive not because i'm white but because i served 31 years, i know my american history, and i know that slavery was wrong, and i also know that times have changed, for this to come up in a most prestigious millitary acememy is wrong but i understand the learning curve, dont punish but counsel grow these future leaders to make the correct changes i earned everthing i got from the millitary so should they
(1)
(0)
I have no idea what they were trying to represent by raising their fists. I can ASSUME but, we all know how that breaks down. The problem I have with it is how it can be "perceived". Does it look like a "political statement"? To me it does but, how would I know? If you've ever heard that "perception is reality" then, you know what I mean. In my opinion, it was not a smart thing to do. If I was in charge, I would interview each of them individually to find out. If it turns out it was just to signify "victory" over a hard fought four years in WestPoint then, good for them. Carry on and do great things. However, if it was meant to signify "black power" or support of the "Black Lives Matter" movement, I would expel them all just as fast as I would a group of white Cadets giving the Nazi salute.
(1)
(0)
(2)
(0)
MSgt James Mullis
Maj Rob Drury - At best they are well educated kids who spent the last four years of their lives in a military cocoon. Hopefully, time and experience will make them into adult officers worthy of respect and followership they will be soon be seeking from their soldiers.
(0)
(0)
Maj Rob Drury
MSgt James Mullis - Hopefully so; but if this is how they transition into commissioned life, it's not likely.
(1)
(0)
Even if they can explain their way away from the Black Lives Matter Movement, their gestures could seem demeaning. Anything can be taken out of context, and this is why, while in uniform, you have to be very carful how you act and what you do.
I could care less if they are a bunch of racists morons as long as they do not make their decisions on their personal feelings and bigoted views. Once, they opened that door any 1/2 asses NCO, SNCO, Staff NCO would be able to expose them for who they were.
Hopefully, this is just some stupid lack of good judgment.
I could care less if they are a bunch of racists morons as long as they do not make their decisions on their personal feelings and bigoted views. Once, they opened that door any 1/2 asses NCO, SNCO, Staff NCO would be able to expose them for who they were.
Hopefully, this is just some stupid lack of good judgment.
(1)
(0)
Read This Next