Posted on Sep 25, 2015
Do you believe the 2 women Rangers passed on their own merits or were they given special treatment?
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Women in the Military
Ranger School
Standards
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That was fast...
"A former Ranger instructor who provided information and potential sources to an Oklahoma congressman’s office about the first Ranger School class to include women, said on Wednesday Rep. Steve Russell’s staff contacted him first.
“First of all, I was not the one who started any of this,” said Michael “Bubba” Moore in a phone interview. “Russell was already doing his own thing. I had no idea who Russell was.”
He said he doesn’t know how the congressman’s office got his name or phone number, but that he was contacted by Cody Hoefer, Russell’s defense and military adviser."
Read more here: http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/local/military/article37111038.html#storylink=cpy
"A former Ranger instructor who provided information and potential sources to an Oklahoma congressman’s office about the first Ranger School class to include women, said on Wednesday Rep. Steve Russell’s staff contacted him first.
“First of all, I was not the one who started any of this,” said Michael “Bubba” Moore in a phone interview. “Russell was already doing his own thing. I had no idea who Russell was.”
He said he doesn’t know how the congressman’s office got his name or phone number, but that he was contacted by Cody Hoefer, Russell’s defense and military adviser."
Read more here: http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/local/military/article37111038.html#storylink=cpy
Retired Ranger says congressman contacted him first about female Ranger grads
A former Ranger instructor who provided information and potential sources to an Oklahoma congressman’s office about the first Ranger School class to include women, said on Wednesday Rep. Steve Russell’s staff contacted him first.
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SSgt Alex Robinson
CW4 Guy Butler i hope the truth comes out and there is no evidence the Army manipulated the standards
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LCDR Jayne Garland
Thank you for providing this article. I am deeply disturbed that Mr. Russel believes himself to be an impartial investigator when he has publicly stated that women often lacked the strength and agility to fight and survive in harsh conditions. He has further damaged his credibility as an impartial investigator by allegedly soliciting opinions from individuals who have no firsthand knowledge of any of the training received by these two women and their teammates and then behaving as if he was approached to investigate “serious allegations” that the standards were lowered. There is no doubt that this issue has raised a lot of objections and accusations, but accusations made with no proof are a far cry from “serious allegations” which infers there is a factual basis for the allegations. If it is discovered that he acted on unfounded accusations, he has not only blundered badly, he has done the service he claims to be such a proud member of, an unforgivable disservice.
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SSgt Alex Robinson I believe that these 2 officers met the standards for award of the Ranger tab without modification. This continual questioning is disrespectful to these officers.
Stay on the tank.
Stay on the tank.
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SSgt Alex Robinson
LTC Bink Romanick my concern is, as more info seems to drop out, that there may have been some alterations to the standards. We now know the women in question were given additional time for training in advance of the ranger course. We also know a flag officer said women would graduate from the course this training cycle. I really don't know what to believe. I hope the ladies passed on their merits but I also know we live in a PC society and we all know the military has been used for social experiments in the past.
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LTC Bink Romanick
SSgt Alex Robinson - There's zero verification of the people magazine article... None.
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LTC Bink Romanick
SSgt Alex Robinson the only congressional interest that I know of is by REP Russell who is a retired Infantry LTC and Ranger. There is NO full blown congressional investigation. Some female officers have done a FOIA request for Russell's Ranger Scchool records...it seems that some are afraid of losing their man card and are threatened by females attaining any success.
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I had the distinct Honor to Serve with many Rangers during my four and a half plus years as a Combat Engineer in the Army Core of Engineers. 86-91 if the commitment and core values were held those two Rangers will prove them selves for a long time.
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I have seen nothing to indicate that they did not pass in the same way everyone else passes.
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They did their thing! We should LEAVE it alone now! They Passed! Accept it and Move it! Sexism is more Paramount in the Military than any Organization in the World!
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Suspended Profile
What I believe is not relevant. I was not there and have no factual information other than hearsay, so I can not make any fact based assumption. Anything other than a fact based assumption is conjecture at best or slander at worst.
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SSgt Robinson:
Both of these Soldiers also graduated from West Point!!
Both of these Soldiers also graduated from West Point!!
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SSgt Alex Robinson
CH (CPT) Heather Davis How do you know they have been slandered? There is not enough information to for you or anyone to make such a statement. Until ALL the facts are out no one can say one way or another. I posted this as away of educating myself and promoting a professional discussion.
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CH (CPT) Heather Davis
The same questions that you are asking were asked back in 1940 Blacks were accepted into training for Army Air Forces.
1942
Navy opened up more career fields (other than steward occupation)
to blacks.
1948
President Harry S. Truman issued Executive Order 9981,
mandating the integratioin of blacks in the military.
1948
Congress passed the Women’s Armed Services Integration Act,
which established a permanent but separate women’s corps in the
military services.
1951
Defense Advisory Committee on Women in the Services
(DACOWITS) was established.
1963
Department of Defense (DOD) established civil rights office and
directed each military service to develop internal civil rights
monitoring systems.
1967
Public Law 90-130 removed the statutory ceiling on the number of
military women (2 percent) and grade limitation (one line colonel
per each service).
1972 Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) admitted women.
1973 Flight training opened to Army and Navy women; Air Force in 1976.
1974
DOD rescinded its policy which involuntarily separated pregnant
servicewomen.
1976 Military service academies admitted women.
1977
Army began coeducational basic training of women and men
recruits (the Army returned to separate training in 1982).
1977
Air Force assigned the first women to Titan missile launch control
crews.
1978
Public Law 95-485 abolished the Women’s Army Corps (WAC),
fully integrating women into the Regular Army.
1978 First Navy women reported for sea duty aboard USS Vulcan.
1942
Navy opened up more career fields (other than steward occupation)
to blacks.
1948
President Harry S. Truman issued Executive Order 9981,
mandating the integratioin of blacks in the military.
1948
Congress passed the Women’s Armed Services Integration Act,
which established a permanent but separate women’s corps in the
military services.
1951
Defense Advisory Committee on Women in the Services
(DACOWITS) was established.
1963
Department of Defense (DOD) established civil rights office and
directed each military service to develop internal civil rights
monitoring systems.
1967
Public Law 90-130 removed the statutory ceiling on the number of
military women (2 percent) and grade limitation (one line colonel
per each service).
1972 Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) admitted women.
1973 Flight training opened to Army and Navy women; Air Force in 1976.
1974
DOD rescinded its policy which involuntarily separated pregnant
servicewomen.
1976 Military service academies admitted women.
1977
Army began coeducational basic training of women and men
recruits (the Army returned to separate training in 1982).
1977
Air Force assigned the first women to Titan missile launch control
crews.
1978
Public Law 95-485 abolished the Women’s Army Corps (WAC),
fully integrating women into the Regular Army.
1978 First Navy women reported for sea duty aboard USS Vulcan.
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CH (CPT) Heather Davis
The CIC dictates mandated policy changes and back in
1980
DOD issued its first sexual harassment policy statement (in 1981
the SecDef issued a memorandum emphasizing that sexual
harassment was unacceptable conduct).
1981 DOD issued a policy that banned homosexuals from military service.
1985
Air Force assigned the first women to Minuteman/Peacekeeper
missile launch crews.
1989 Servicewomen participated in Operation Just Cause.
1990–
1991
More than 40,000 women participated in Operations Desert Shield
and Desert Storm, many in nontraditional roles. Two women were
prisoners of war and five women died due to hostile action.
1993
SecDef directed the military services to open combat aircraft and
ships to women. Congress repealed laws prohibiting women from
assignment aboard combatant vessels.
1993
SecDef directed implementation of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy
allowing discreet homosexuals to serve in the military.
1994
Since SecDef Memo, DOD opened an additional 260,000 positions
to women. Today 80 percent (versus 67 percent before SecDef
Memo) of military positions are open to women.
1980
DOD issued its first sexual harassment policy statement (in 1981
the SecDef issued a memorandum emphasizing that sexual
harassment was unacceptable conduct).
1981 DOD issued a policy that banned homosexuals from military service.
1985
Air Force assigned the first women to Minuteman/Peacekeeper
missile launch crews.
1989 Servicewomen participated in Operation Just Cause.
1990–
1991
More than 40,000 women participated in Operations Desert Shield
and Desert Storm, many in nontraditional roles. Two women were
prisoners of war and five women died due to hostile action.
1993
SecDef directed the military services to open combat aircraft and
ships to women. Congress repealed laws prohibiting women from
assignment aboard combatant vessels.
1993
SecDef directed implementation of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy
allowing discreet homosexuals to serve in the military.
1994
Since SecDef Memo, DOD opened an additional 260,000 positions
to women. Today 80 percent (versus 67 percent before SecDef
Memo) of military positions are open to women.
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MAJ Bill Darling
Trying to tie the race and sex integration is convenient but largely unwarranted. Whatever the opinions of (true) racists, I would venture to guess that most knew there were no legitimate--at worst sizable--differences for race. Today, only the most strident (modern) feminist thinks that women and men are completely interchangeable. And the school from which they graduated is immaterial.
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For anyone to have thought that there were special concessions made in favor of these heroic female rangers is to take this great country back to the medieval times when women were often seen as weaklings and subservient. The most surprising fact is that most women have done excellently where some men woefully failed.
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I would believe since they are both OFFICERS and have to hold and display a high standard of conduct and everything else like a officer should I do believe they made it through RS without any standards being lowered so they could graduate. Now I was a Bradley Master Gunner Instructor and our Brigade Commander saw how we use to score the students, for you only get one retest and if you fail that test then you go back to you home station. So this new Brigade Commander saw what was happening and was getting phone calls from all kinds of 11M Battalion Commanders saying they have invested a lot of money to send there soldiers to this school and something needs to change like giving more retest after retest and a third retest and so on, so we were approached by our Brigade Commander after he received the first no-go retests packets and said they will have a retest for a second time if they failed the first retest, then most of them did, the packets were sent to him for his signature to send them back home but then he puts on all of them they will receive a third to the last retest. Ok no this Col just lowered the standards for anyone on his own record and he did not bother to ask the instructors what we thought about three retests and all. This is when I and many other instructors said this has just turned into a giveme school and I myself like the other instructors no longer felt like this course was the cream of the crop type of school no more. Then after a few months went by we start hearing about most of these third time retest soldiers who were back at their home station was no performing their duties correctly as a Master Gunner and there companies were Q2s when there were on table 8 in Graf. So I look at it like this when standards are lowered someone is not going to perform like they should after they graduate and the whole meaning of high standards needs to stay in place no matter male or females going to a certain school or not. I fought in desert storm 91' 3rd Armored Div from Friedburg Germany and I had to start doing the company master gunner job because he too was one of those jokers who had retest after retest and didn't know jack bone what he was doing or when to do it, SLACKER!!! I do congratulate both female officers for completing RS and graduated for my hats off to them fully, for I have seen in Desert Storm while on the attack three female medics jumping off their M577S medic tracks and shooting and killing the enemy that were running from one fox hole to another with only their M16s and I thought to myself goodness these female soldiers can fight next to me anytime. I can only say they were fighting just like male soldiers were they were no weakening or crying they were up front and personal with the republican guard and taking them out. Being all said in this I truly would no mind at all having females in combat arms but there have to be some conditions put in place before they can be I believe. "SPARTANS KILLS TANKS".
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