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Many who have studied Islam have various feelings as to the status of Islam. Please respond as to why you do or do not accept Islam as a religion.
Does Islam rate protection under the Bill of Rights?
Does Islam rate protection under the Bill of Rights?
Religion
Constitution
Islam
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 98
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Islam has components of religion in it, BUT is it a religion or is it much more than that?
Truth be told, Islam is a political movement and Sharia justice system that operates under the guise of being a religion.
The religious aspects of Islam are what it uses to gain new converts and keep old ones from leaving. I don't know of any other religions that harbor so much hatred toward others, and so much intolerance of those whose belief systems are different. Islam is not a religion of peace. Violence follows wherever it goes. It can not coexist with other forms of government and other forms of religion. It seeks to impose its rules on others. How many religions advocate the overthrow of governments? Is it a valid religion if it explains how to have sex with children, and ANIMALS? I mean, seriously?!!
Don't believe me?
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/bestiality.htm
Truth be told, Islam is a political movement and Sharia justice system that operates under the guise of being a religion.
The religious aspects of Islam are what it uses to gain new converts and keep old ones from leaving. I don't know of any other religions that harbor so much hatred toward others, and so much intolerance of those whose belief systems are different. Islam is not a religion of peace. Violence follows wherever it goes. It can not coexist with other forms of government and other forms of religion. It seeks to impose its rules on others. How many religions advocate the overthrow of governments? Is it a valid religion if it explains how to have sex with children, and ANIMALS? I mean, seriously?!!
Don't believe me?
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/bestiality.htm
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SFC Robert Wheeler
Capt Schwager, don't you bother to check what you read for authenticity? It's a hit piece of pseudo-intellectual garbage. Have you personally picked up a Quran and read it? I may have missed something, but I done see you mentioning a degree in Religion. As for Islam not being a religion of peace, neither is Christianity. There are fundamentalist Christians that have conducted a campaign of terror by inspiring people to murder abortion providers. That is only a single incident in Christianity's long history of war and genocide. With such a bigoted view of Islam, I can't understand why you would be allowed to maintain your commission.
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Capt Jeff S.
Before questioning others' credentials, maybe you might want to state your own. At least give yourself some credibility. Maybe I missed something, but did you mention that you have a degree in anything? Okay, so now that we've got that part out of the way... What makes you a subject matter expert? When you say stuff like, "There are fundamentalist Christians that have conducted a campaign of terror by inspiring people to murder abortion providers.", it doesn't enhance your credibility. Your attempt to deflect and redirect the conversation isn't going to fly.
To answer your question, "YES, I have read the Qu'ran. I've also read the Bible. Have you? Note that my answer wasn't cut and paste. It's based on what I have observed and read -- to include what's out on NIPRNET and SIPRNET. I've also been to the Middle East. What are your creds?
Do understand that Muslims don't just draw their inspiration from the Qu'ran. They also get it from Hadiths and from the teachings of their local Imams.
You can't understand why I would be allowed to maintain my commission? Not at all surprising. Apparently, there's a lot you don't understand.
To answer your question, "YES, I have read the Qu'ran. I've also read the Bible. Have you? Note that my answer wasn't cut and paste. It's based on what I have observed and read -- to include what's out on NIPRNET and SIPRNET. I've also been to the Middle East. What are your creds?
Do understand that Muslims don't just draw their inspiration from the Qu'ran. They also get it from Hadiths and from the teachings of their local Imams.
You can't understand why I would be allowed to maintain my commission? Not at all surprising. Apparently, there's a lot you don't understand.
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Capt Jeff S.
"Look puke! I hold advanced degrees and didn't crawl out from under a rock yesterday."
... says the guy with advanced degrees. SMH. In what? Behavioral Science? That qualifies. @@
Who would have guessed you were so educated? Apparently your advanced degrees make you a subject matter expert in name calling, flying off the handle, and projecting your hate at others. Perhaps you would do well to study your own behavior.
"The ability to critically think and maintain a sense of openness is the key to understanding anything."
You should be open to the idea that you have been wrong on issues regarding Islam and Christianity, and that you aren't the subject matter expert you claim to be. For example, you said, "
"Sharia law is not unique to Islam."
Sharia has EVERYTHING to do with Islam. The following comes straight from the Islamic Supreme Council in America. Note the words "Islamic Supreme Council." Who better than they would know what Shariah is! Here's what they have to say...
"Shariah is the Islamic Law – the disciplines and principles that govern the behavior of a Muslim individual towards his or herself, family, neighbors, community, city, nation and the Muslim polity as a whole, the Ummah. Similarly Shariah governs the interactions between communities, groups and social and economic organizations. Shariah establishes the criteria by which all social actions are classified, categorized and administered within the overall governance of the state.
Shariah first establishes the patterns believers should follow in worshipping Allah: prayers, charity, fasting and pilgrimage."
How many religions can you name that worship Allah, and have a law component that administers itself within the overall governance of the state?
... says the guy with advanced degrees. SMH. In what? Behavioral Science? That qualifies. @@
Who would have guessed you were so educated? Apparently your advanced degrees make you a subject matter expert in name calling, flying off the handle, and projecting your hate at others. Perhaps you would do well to study your own behavior.
"The ability to critically think and maintain a sense of openness is the key to understanding anything."
You should be open to the idea that you have been wrong on issues regarding Islam and Christianity, and that you aren't the subject matter expert you claim to be. For example, you said, "
"Sharia law is not unique to Islam."
Sharia has EVERYTHING to do with Islam. The following comes straight from the Islamic Supreme Council in America. Note the words "Islamic Supreme Council." Who better than they would know what Shariah is! Here's what they have to say...
"Shariah is the Islamic Law – the disciplines and principles that govern the behavior of a Muslim individual towards his or herself, family, neighbors, community, city, nation and the Muslim polity as a whole, the Ummah. Similarly Shariah governs the interactions between communities, groups and social and economic organizations. Shariah establishes the criteria by which all social actions are classified, categorized and administered within the overall governance of the state.
Shariah first establishes the patterns believers should follow in worshipping Allah: prayers, charity, fasting and pilgrimage."
How many religions can you name that worship Allah, and have a law component that administers itself within the overall governance of the state?
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Is that a legit question? It is the largest fear mongering religion and fastest growing religion in the world today. It is to be feared, and resisted with all force necessary. In another 100 years, Christians will live in fear in this country...unless we stand our ground now. Almost all religions have some form of separation of church and state/govt, what is unique about Islam is there is no division or separation of church and state, actually the state religion becomes Islam, and cannot run without religion, the religion is the rules of the state. Punishment is directed by the Quran...it's an ingenious business model, one that will keep it alive and flourishing for centuries....perhaps the question should be: should we allow Islam in a Christian country, because coexist is a word that only exists in Unicorn land.
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GySgt William Hardy I realize that I'm coming into this discussion late [and admit that I haven't read ANY of the responses] - HOWEVER when you ask "Does Islam rate protection under the Bill of Rights?" you raise a point that few see and fewer want to admit.
That point is that the government doesn't have to infringe anyone's Constitutional Rights to practice their religion if it simply defines a set of beliefs as NOT a "religion" at which point it can suppress that set of beliefs and incarcerate those who subscribe to them.
Where that gets "sticky" is that the government can do that to ANY set of beliefs - even that "so-called 'Christianity' stuff".
That point is that the government doesn't have to infringe anyone's Constitutional Rights to practice their religion if it simply defines a set of beliefs as NOT a "religion" at which point it can suppress that set of beliefs and incarcerate those who subscribe to them.
Where that gets "sticky" is that the government can do that to ANY set of beliefs - even that "so-called 'Christianity' stuff".
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GySgt William Hardy
Yes Colonel, it can be a sticky matter. Especially when a person sees only one Islam. I believe that radical Islam does not reflect the everyday Muslim any more than the Branch Dividians or Jim Jones represented Christianity. I think it is both foolish and dangerous not to recognize both sides.
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COL Ted Mc
GySgt William Hardy You say "I think it is both foolish and dangerous not to recognize both sides." which makes me start to wonder if you have been reading Sun Tzu.
Obviously the politicians haven't.
Obviously the politicians haven't.
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"Many who have studied Islam"?!
I'm going to venture that any who have actually studied it regard it as a legitimate religion.
Those who have only looked up the Wikipedia page or want to start an argument might not, but I also venture this wasn't a "legitimate question." (Those who have studied it have various feelings)
I'm going to venture that any who have actually studied it regard it as a legitimate religion.
Those who have only looked up the Wikipedia page or want to start an argument might not, but I also venture this wasn't a "legitimate question." (Those who have studied it have various feelings)
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I have never heard anyone utter the words "not legitimate" in the direction of Islam. I am confused and flabbergasted that this is even a topic. No one here has been able to figure out how this is even a debate.
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Candy Alkaabi
I have heard it a lot, I am called a traitor and a terrorist for being muslim and those are the nicer things said. Muslims are also being attacked left and right by those that do not like Muslims. Most of us do nothing more than live peacefully and abide by the laws and yet we are treated very badly. It is a sad thing to hear and see, and I do know a few people that were attacked for being Muslim, one was beaten with a two by four and did live but would scream every time they woke him up, because he thought he was still being attacked. All he was doing was minding his own business and running a store and a group of men ganged up on him and took turns beating him. Another man was shot at by someone saying he was a terrorist and needed to be put down. The main mosque here had a man walk in yelling obscenities and saying that they were worshiping the devil and scaring the women and children, the men did not touch him but they did surround him and escort him out, a few months latter that same man came to the mosque with a pipe bomb and tried to sneak in the back door, thank God they had locked that door for security reasons, it still did not stop him, he set off the bomb just outside that door and then fled to Oklahoma. The news did not cover it as much and didn't even cover the fact that he was taken out by the FBI....at least not the local news and the other stations that covered it only did a very tiny segment on it! He isn't the only one destroying mosques and trying or succeeding in killing people there are many more incidents but I will leave that for another time and another post!
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Candy Alkaabi
Sgt Jennifer Mohler - It is better to keep the name calling out of it, and you do need to reread the posts, some are actually saying that they don't like Islam but know that it is protected by the BoR. It is a place for us to have a conversation, and name calling as well as personal insults are not part of a real debate. That is what sarcasm is for.
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Sgt Jennifer Mohler
I am dead. Where did you dig this up from? I haven't logged in in well over a year ,
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Sgt Jennifer Mohler
*dead* I haven't logged in for well over a year. Deleted the app months ago and never downloaded it on this phone. Where on earth did you dig this up from? Lordt you need a hobby if you are trolling posts from ages ago
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I will say this, Islam is a religion and individuals in the United States who practice it deserve protection under the U.S. Constitution unless it violates the U.S. Constitution or other individuals such as enforcing sharia law which is a no go.
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Suspended Profile
Islam is as valid as any other religion (Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc). I also don't think any religion should be able to influence the secular government. Your religious beliefs should be kept between you, your family, your church friends, your religious leader, and the divine being you believe in.
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I wonder how many of the respondents actually studied the history of Islam or the life of Muhammad. People are free to call any philosophy a religion. But to put Islam on the same standing as Christianity, Buddhism, or any other non-aggressive, non-violent religion is ignorant of the facts. Before calling out all the killing done in the name of Christ, I refer to Christ as a non-violent example. Or the Buddha in respect for all life. Muhammad was a very violent man in his quest for power and riches. He is the ultimate example in Islam. I'm not saying that all Muslims are violent, I simply refer to the example that he set. So before getting indignant, or offended by a legitimate question, study the subject matter. Then you can defend your viewpoint with a little knowledge.
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Sgt Mark Ramos
Capt Gregory Prickett Please tell me when Jesus called to bring the sword, not peace. Have you studied the life of either Jesus or Muhammad? Muhammad was a murderer and rapist. Tell me how Jesus is comparable.
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Sgt Mark Ramos
Capt Gregory Prickett, I understand your viewpoint. It is the viewpoint of almost all of my liberal atheist friends, it is a mantra. To me, it is part of the paradox of liberal group think. The philosophy admonishes against prejudging and stereotyping. In other words, you must understand the individual separate from the group. And, you must not judge the group based on the actions of the few. All Muslims should not be judged by the actions of a minority subset (which I agree with). But, the liberal atheist philosophy says that it is OK to judge all religions based on a minority subset of one religion (Islam now, or Christianity from the dark ages). In other words, expanding judgement by a group factor of one is bad, but expand it another factor and that is good.
Your second point doesn’t make rational sense to me. It is only important if you are a follower of either religion. From an analytical standpoint, it isn’t important if either Jesus or Muhammad were real or fictional. The important factor is what their followers believe of them, how they conducted their lives, what type of example they set. Christians believe that Christ told them to love one another, your two example passages notwithstanding (the context and meaning is a long discussion that would make no difference in this argument). There is no example of Jesus killing another person for any reason either in Christian or historical literature. However, Muhammad was a warrior. That is well documented, and accepted by his followers.
Your last point is also very confusing to me. Especially coming from a lawyer. As you are well aware a person can claim to say or do anything in another person’s name. Or that they have the endorsement of a particular group. That is not the same thing at all as actually having that endorsement. We have laws to protect individuals and groups from such false association and slander. The people who committed atrocities and called themselves Christians had no basis in that claim. Christ (as we understand through the writings that define him) did not preach or set any type of example to lead us to believe that he endorsed such behavior. People justified their actions by claiming a false association. However, there are plenty of examples in Muhammad’s life to justify the atrocities that we’ve witnessed in the name of Islam.
Your second point doesn’t make rational sense to me. It is only important if you are a follower of either religion. From an analytical standpoint, it isn’t important if either Jesus or Muhammad were real or fictional. The important factor is what their followers believe of them, how they conducted their lives, what type of example they set. Christians believe that Christ told them to love one another, your two example passages notwithstanding (the context and meaning is a long discussion that would make no difference in this argument). There is no example of Jesus killing another person for any reason either in Christian or historical literature. However, Muhammad was a warrior. That is well documented, and accepted by his followers.
Your last point is also very confusing to me. Especially coming from a lawyer. As you are well aware a person can claim to say or do anything in another person’s name. Or that they have the endorsement of a particular group. That is not the same thing at all as actually having that endorsement. We have laws to protect individuals and groups from such false association and slander. The people who committed atrocities and called themselves Christians had no basis in that claim. Christ (as we understand through the writings that define him) did not preach or set any type of example to lead us to believe that he endorsed such behavior. People justified their actions by claiming a false association. However, there are plenty of examples in Muhammad’s life to justify the atrocities that we’ve witnessed in the name of Islam.
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Sgt Mark Ramos
Capt Gregory Prickett, I wasn't saying that you are a liberal atheist, only that your viewpoint on religion is shared by them, and I've heard it expressed many times. They think that all believers are a bit nutty in believing in fairy tails. So they aren't interested in analyzing the situation in any detail. It is an extreme level of stereotyping.
Christians believe that Christ ushered in an era with new rules. He preached against many of the old ways in the Old Testament. But I'm not interested in comparing the holy books of Christianity and Islam. I think it's a futile exercise. The are many ways to interpret most passages. Plus Islam has the Koran, Sunnah, consensus of scholars , and Ijtihad. There is too much scattered and often conflicting information to come to a concrete conclusion on what their doctrine is. But, the most direct, and telling method is to analyze the person who each religion glorifies the most, whether that person or real or only exists in their folklore. For Islam it is a person who did everything that the radicals are doing and therefore easily justified in their actions. For Christians it is a person who never hurt or stole from anyone.
We live in a an era when radical Muslims are attempting to establish caliphates and impose Sharia law. They are pirating, enslaving, killing, and taxing along their way, just like Muhammad did. If we lived during the times of the Inquisition I'm sure my viewpoint would be different, my first concern back then would probably be how I was going to feed myself and my family, but we don't.
Christians believe that Christ ushered in an era with new rules. He preached against many of the old ways in the Old Testament. But I'm not interested in comparing the holy books of Christianity and Islam. I think it's a futile exercise. The are many ways to interpret most passages. Plus Islam has the Koran, Sunnah, consensus of scholars , and Ijtihad. There is too much scattered and often conflicting information to come to a concrete conclusion on what their doctrine is. But, the most direct, and telling method is to analyze the person who each religion glorifies the most, whether that person or real or only exists in their folklore. For Islam it is a person who did everything that the radicals are doing and therefore easily justified in their actions. For Christians it is a person who never hurt or stole from anyone.
We live in a an era when radical Muslims are attempting to establish caliphates and impose Sharia law. They are pirating, enslaving, killing, and taxing along their way, just like Muhammad did. If we lived during the times of the Inquisition I'm sure my viewpoint would be different, my first concern back then would probably be how I was going to feed myself and my family, but we don't.
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