Posted on Apr 12, 2017
Do you feel it's fair for an airline to deplane (in any way) a paying passenger when they are oversold?
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Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 25
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My thought was that when it came time to have to pick a non volunteer, and nobody would go that the pilot should simply have announced - Folks we MUST have one person deplane. If no one will I be the one. Now folks please find a way to help us solve this or the flight will have to proceed without me.
I'll bet the passengers would have found a way.
I'll bet the passengers would have found a way.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
They have a cash box. They chose to be cheap. I get offers to deplane all the time. They chose to be cheap bastards. As a minimum they are supposed to put you up somewhere, feed you, etc. AS A MINIMUM. They chose not to. Their loss. Hope they suffer.
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Capt (Join to see)
I have read that they offered up to $800 for someone to give up a seat. If I were there I would be $800 richer and would have taken the next flight out.
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Let's add this into the mix:
http://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-united-low-priority-passenger-20170412-story.html
http://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-united-low-priority-passenger-20170412-story.html
United passenger threatened with handcuffs to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler
It’s hard to find examples of worse decision making and customer treatment than United having a passenger dragged from an overbooked plane. But United’s shabby treatment of Geoff Fearns comes close.
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MSgt James Mullis
This is a good article and it points out one of the major stumbling points to modern business and society and it's one that the Air Force and the DoD often fail to get their hands around. It is vital to "Empower" employees, so they can do the right thing. When a difficult situation occurs, they should be able to handle it without resorting to "Our policy says...". The blanket use of "Our policy says...or the regulations says...etc." are the death knell to right and wrong.
As soon as an airline knows someone is about to be kicked off a flight, a fully empowered customer service rep should have been called to the aircraft to talk to the passenger. Imagine this scenario, you're on a plane and your mother is in the hospital at the destination and she is dying. Then someone from the airline tries to drag you off the plane, ostensibly because someone paid them more for the seat. What would you do? What should the airline do? Without empowering the person on the plane to "do the right thing" the airline could cause you irreparable harm.
As soon as an airline knows someone is about to be kicked off a flight, a fully empowered customer service rep should have been called to the aircraft to talk to the passenger. Imagine this scenario, you're on a plane and your mother is in the hospital at the destination and she is dying. Then someone from the airline tries to drag you off the plane, ostensibly because someone paid them more for the seat. What would you do? What should the airline do? Without empowering the person on the plane to "do the right thing" the airline could cause you irreparable harm.
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The problem is many airlines do this very same thing. They purposely overbook flights because at the end of the day its a business and they lose money on empty seats. Airline companies also take into account that people are people and are late, miss, or just plain don't show up to their booked flights. With regard to the most recent situation; the passenger was right to stay on the plane. He paid and refused to give up his seat. In situation like this the airline needs to provide more incentive. The problem became complex because I'm certain at some point a comment was made or the passenger and the staff got into some form of debate. This is when the staff needs to remember 'the customer is always right' and just find a new way to make it happen.
Because the seat was for an employee, what most likely occurred was that the employee needed to return to their 'home base' in order to receive the full benefit of rest and recuperation before assuming duties on the next scheduled day. However, since the plane was overbooked and every passenger boarded.....they should have just rescheduled the staff member and informed them there was no other way. this happens often to airline employees as it is a part of the business.
United Airlines as a company didn't provide substandard products or service. It was merely the actions of just a few employees. Hopefully, this is a lesson for the company and they find new ways to conduct business in these situations.
Because the seat was for an employee, what most likely occurred was that the employee needed to return to their 'home base' in order to receive the full benefit of rest and recuperation before assuming duties on the next scheduled day. However, since the plane was overbooked and every passenger boarded.....they should have just rescheduled the staff member and informed them there was no other way. this happens often to airline employees as it is a part of the business.
United Airlines as a company didn't provide substandard products or service. It was merely the actions of just a few employees. Hopefully, this is a lesson for the company and they find new ways to conduct business in these situations.
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SSG (Join to see)
They don't lose money because seats are empty. If person A books and is a no show he/she will still be paying for the ticket and person B will be in the seat. The airlines just made double the money for a seat. Unless of course you pay the ridiculous price for the cancellation/rebook option.
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MCPO Roger Collins
Agree, but do you know why all these rules and charges came about and the losses that were incurred to the airlines. The issue of over reaction is valid, the current status of a private companies not so much.
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I once got booted from a flight (before I boarded the plane) due to overbooking (even though the Army paid for the flight). On the plus side, they got me a whole new flight and cut me a (somewhat large) check for my inconvenience.
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If the plane is overbooked, overloaded, someone has to come off or not get on. I think the way they did the latest one was wrong, and I have no love for the airlines, but sometimes you pay a price for refusing to listen?
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MSG Brad Sand
PO3 Donald Murphy -
Was the man told to disembark the aircraft? Did he? At what point does his actions become his own fault? SO, because he was willing to act like a petulant child long enough...'I'm not going and mommy cannot make me...NO!' A different grown up should have been forced off the plane? Just asking?
Not saying the airline was in the right...they suck and that is why so many are willing to jump on so quickly? What if the plane and taken off with an extra person? You think the FAA would have just smiled and said, "No problem, that guys would not get off the plane? You're fine?"
Last, you invite the same man into your home for a party and find out that too many people actually showed for your party...you ask a late comer to leave because your wife just came home and it is too crowded and they say 'Nope, sorry Don, I'm having too much fun." Do you say, 'Sorry Honey, you need to go outside...see you in the morning?" or "Hey Dude, I tried asking nicely, get out?"
Was the man told to disembark the aircraft? Did he? At what point does his actions become his own fault? SO, because he was willing to act like a petulant child long enough...'I'm not going and mommy cannot make me...NO!' A different grown up should have been forced off the plane? Just asking?
Not saying the airline was in the right...they suck and that is why so many are willing to jump on so quickly? What if the plane and taken off with an extra person? You think the FAA would have just smiled and said, "No problem, that guys would not get off the plane? You're fine?"
Last, you invite the same man into your home for a party and find out that too many people actually showed for your party...you ask a late comer to leave because your wife just came home and it is too crowded and they say 'Nope, sorry Don, I'm having too much fun." Do you say, 'Sorry Honey, you need to go outside...see you in the morning?" or "Hey Dude, I tried asking nicely, get out?"
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MSG Brad Sand
1stSgt Nelson Kerr -
Where are you getting all these facts that no one else seems to have? They needed four seats to get another flight crew to the next destination. They needed the seats, they followed their policy and how to be fair in selecting which person(s) needed to catch the next flight?
The airline handled it poorly. Law enforcement/security made a bad situation worse BUT if you or I would have been there, NONE of this would have happened because we would not have let it escalate to the point where we had to be dragged off the plane...regardless of how bad others acted. Why is that? Oh right, we are grown ups.
Where are you getting all these facts that no one else seems to have? They needed four seats to get another flight crew to the next destination. They needed the seats, they followed their policy and how to be fair in selecting which person(s) needed to catch the next flight?
The airline handled it poorly. Law enforcement/security made a bad situation worse BUT if you or I would have been there, NONE of this would have happened because we would not have let it escalate to the point where we had to be dragged off the plane...regardless of how bad others acted. Why is that? Oh right, we are grown ups.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
MSG Brad Sand - At the end of the day, as I said earlier. The airline was in the right legally. They weren't in the right morally. And the moral aspect is whats hitting them. When your flight is $64 I'll take any bullshit you care to heap out. But when my flight is $899 and you're charging me $2093 for each checked bag, having blue eyes, etc, then yeah...I'm gonna be bitchy and scratchy. And no - you don't have to take it. But as I am your customer you have a choice to make. And that choice is whether to win and keep customers. United dropped the ball. They have "angry customer training." They have "abusive customer training." Anyone in that line of work does. $3.50 per hour janitors at Disney take that training! Cuz keeping that tourist dollar flowing is priority number 1.
Also, the police - as we've all seen on TV/net/other - have had opportunities to do things differently and could have. Were they in their right to strong arm him for aggressive behavior? I think you and I both know what the answer to that is. I don't care how much of a dick I am. You **WILL** arrest me a certain way or I'll have your badge every time. And while all will rail at "oh if only Don had been more polite," you'll get the judgement against you and be looking for a new job. Thats what we claim separates us from those socialist commies, right? As others stated, he could have been carried, etc.
Lets be honest - its not that they don't train to do that, right? Its all part and parcel of the training. I worked for Disney and there really is no such thing as an abusive customer. Only an opportunity to make more money. We were trained to look for those customers so that we could loudly and publicly fix their issue within ear shot of all the other guests. Because a guest will not remember the angry 400 lb tourist complaining about his credit card not working in the machine; they'll remember the 100 lb castmember that fixed the machine and comped his entire order as an "apology for cutting in to his shopping time (you can't make this crap up!)."
And the same guys we hired were the same ones that trained the airlines (Executrain).
In fact, our training was done at Orlando Intl Airport. So Sally Stewardess and Holly Hostess knew what to do. When no one stepped up, they should have automatically given out hotel rooms, dinner coupons and either hard cash or ticket vouchers. PLUS A FREE FLIGHT THE NEXT DAY! Before the first passenger had their cell phone in camera mode, they should have had four smiling customers pocketing their loot and beaming as they collect their bags to walk off the plane.
Also, the police - as we've all seen on TV/net/other - have had opportunities to do things differently and could have. Were they in their right to strong arm him for aggressive behavior? I think you and I both know what the answer to that is. I don't care how much of a dick I am. You **WILL** arrest me a certain way or I'll have your badge every time. And while all will rail at "oh if only Don had been more polite," you'll get the judgement against you and be looking for a new job. Thats what we claim separates us from those socialist commies, right? As others stated, he could have been carried, etc.
Lets be honest - its not that they don't train to do that, right? Its all part and parcel of the training. I worked for Disney and there really is no such thing as an abusive customer. Only an opportunity to make more money. We were trained to look for those customers so that we could loudly and publicly fix their issue within ear shot of all the other guests. Because a guest will not remember the angry 400 lb tourist complaining about his credit card not working in the machine; they'll remember the 100 lb castmember that fixed the machine and comped his entire order as an "apology for cutting in to his shopping time (you can't make this crap up!)."
And the same guys we hired were the same ones that trained the airlines (Executrain).
In fact, our training was done at Orlando Intl Airport. So Sally Stewardess and Holly Hostess knew what to do. When no one stepped up, they should have automatically given out hotel rooms, dinner coupons and either hard cash or ticket vouchers. PLUS A FREE FLIGHT THE NEXT DAY! Before the first passenger had their cell phone in camera mode, they should have had four smiling customers pocketing their loot and beaming as they collect their bags to walk off the plane.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
MSG Brad Sand - Someone else posted it, and I agree with it that we as Americans have become accustomed to shutting up and doing what we're told. That is the antithesis of what it is to be American. Our nation was founded by men with guns who said "NO!" when asked to surrender their arms and ammunition, and then started shooting. We've become soft because it surely IS easier to go along to get along.
When did it become fashionable or acceptable to give in, give up, surrender our rightful position? I'm not saying be belligerent for belligerence's sake, but when you have done nothing wrong, why give up? Can you compromise if it benefits you? Of course! But again, if you have done nothing wrong, and don't like their offer, why should you be forced to bend to their will under threat and then application of violence?
Your analogy of someone uninvited showing up at your party is not a comparable situation. Had you sold tickets to an event at your home, and a paying ticketholder shows up, but then you realize a freeloading relative is there too, and someone has to go, you boot the freeloader, not your customer. And you would certainly try to solve the situation before the event began, not as the band was taking the stage.
So, no, someone standing up for his right to not be f*cked with is not a "crybaby." Was Gandhi a "Crybaby?" Was Martin Luther King Jr a "Crybaby?" Both used passive nonviolence and noncompliance to further their agendas. Hardly being "crybabies."
As Popeye used to say, "That's all I can stands and I can't stands no more!"
When did it become fashionable or acceptable to give in, give up, surrender our rightful position? I'm not saying be belligerent for belligerence's sake, but when you have done nothing wrong, why give up? Can you compromise if it benefits you? Of course! But again, if you have done nothing wrong, and don't like their offer, why should you be forced to bend to their will under threat and then application of violence?
Your analogy of someone uninvited showing up at your party is not a comparable situation. Had you sold tickets to an event at your home, and a paying ticketholder shows up, but then you realize a freeloading relative is there too, and someone has to go, you boot the freeloader, not your customer. And you would certainly try to solve the situation before the event began, not as the band was taking the stage.
So, no, someone standing up for his right to not be f*cked with is not a "crybaby." Was Gandhi a "Crybaby?" Was Martin Luther King Jr a "Crybaby?" Both used passive nonviolence and noncompliance to further their agendas. Hardly being "crybabies."
As Popeye used to say, "That's all I can stands and I can't stands no more!"
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