Posted on May 10, 2015
Do you think military service members should be prosecuted under UCMJ for disrespect to the Commander-in-Chief? I say absolutely, YES!
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Disrespect
Office of the President (POTUS)
UCMJ
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 239
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Yes. He is the POTUS and due the proper respect that position entails.
He is also a subject of this great nation and not above the law and there are mechanisms for disciplining politicians no matter how mighty as Richard Nixon learned. We as service members need to be cautious and judicious in our words, particularly when they are said in public.
He is also a subject of this great nation and not above the law and there are mechanisms for disciplining politicians no matter how mighty as Richard Nixon learned. We as service members need to be cautious and judicious in our words, particularly when they are said in public.
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Interesting question, and I wonder if the question is regarding Obama specifically considering you are a black man, or is the question more generalized. What did you think about the Bush's, Regan, Ford or Carter?
I think the answer is clearly defined, while in uniform and on duty soldiers are enjoined to be respectful of all government leadership, whether they agree with them, are of the same or different party affiliations, regardless of race, religion or political affiliation. However out of uniform and on their personal time, soldiers are still american citizens and should be afforded all the freedoms they have fought and died protecting for all american citizens. They have the right to freedom of speech, as long as they do not attempt to associate that speech to their position, rank, uniform, or any military affiliation. They have the right to be racists, anti-gay, anti-abortion, non-racist, pro-gay, pro-abortion, they are not bound to have to like or respect any leader if they chose, all of these are the rights of all of us. Why should it be different for soldiers?
Questions for you Chief:
Would you shoot and kill a protesting American if the president ordered you?
Would you kill a protesting family member if the president ordered you?
Would you kill a white american if the president ordered you?
Would you kill a muslim american if the president ordered you?
Would you kill a black american if the president ordered you?
I think the answer is clearly defined, while in uniform and on duty soldiers are enjoined to be respectful of all government leadership, whether they agree with them, are of the same or different party affiliations, regardless of race, religion or political affiliation. However out of uniform and on their personal time, soldiers are still american citizens and should be afforded all the freedoms they have fought and died protecting for all american citizens. They have the right to freedom of speech, as long as they do not attempt to associate that speech to their position, rank, uniform, or any military affiliation. They have the right to be racists, anti-gay, anti-abortion, non-racist, pro-gay, pro-abortion, they are not bound to have to like or respect any leader if they chose, all of these are the rights of all of us. Why should it be different for soldiers?
Questions for you Chief:
Would you shoot and kill a protesting American if the president ordered you?
Would you kill a protesting family member if the president ordered you?
Would you kill a white american if the president ordered you?
Would you kill a muslim american if the president ordered you?
Would you kill a black american if the president ordered you?
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CW5 Roy Rucker Sr.
CW3 Amel Smith, since I consider myself and American and not a black man I have no issues answering your question. My question pertains to President Obama and anyone else who has been the President and Commander in Chief during my last 26 years of AFS. I have treated all of them the same and that involves providing them the highest respect.
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CW3 Amel Smith
Chief you are a better man than me, I have had my favorites and considered others losers. I have exercised my freedom of speech in my off duty time, pro and con, it did not make me a better or lessor soldier, nor would it any soldier. I think Obama has made major mistakes, some that have cost soldiers lives. I think it is hard for any soldier to respect that, I would hold Kennedy and Johnson in the same category. except they both served in the military.
The reason I asked if your race was the reason for the question is obvious, in today's environment it seems to be the topic du jour. From where I sit it seems that the black race is trying to incite a deeper racial divide, by making everything about race. Of course if I were sitting on your side of the fence, I could clearly see that there are alot of facts and actions that would support the theory that racism is alive and well on the white side of the fence. Less than one-third (30.3%) or 420,395 of Active Duty members identify
themselves as a minority (i.e., Black or African American, Asian, American Indian or Alaska Native, Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander, multi-racial, or other/unknown . Interestingly enough Hispanic is not considered a minority race designation and is analyzed separately as an ethnicity. Overall, 11.3 percent of the DoD Active Duty force is of Hispanic ethnicity. Not sure of the logic there, but if you put the two together, 41.3 percent of the military are minorities.
Anyway that was my assumption and conclusion to your question, my guess is you were trying to somehow present the argument that more soldiers disrespect Obama than previous white presidents. And my point was that if that is your intent, just make it clear and do not hide behind your attempts in making us all believe that you were to naive and we were too ignorant in your motive. Now of course you have clarified that you have never disrespected a white president and we all will sleep better that you shared your honesty with us.
The reason I asked if your race was the reason for the question is obvious, in today's environment it seems to be the topic du jour. From where I sit it seems that the black race is trying to incite a deeper racial divide, by making everything about race. Of course if I were sitting on your side of the fence, I could clearly see that there are alot of facts and actions that would support the theory that racism is alive and well on the white side of the fence. Less than one-third (30.3%) or 420,395 of Active Duty members identify
themselves as a minority (i.e., Black or African American, Asian, American Indian or Alaska Native, Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander, multi-racial, or other/unknown . Interestingly enough Hispanic is not considered a minority race designation and is analyzed separately as an ethnicity. Overall, 11.3 percent of the DoD Active Duty force is of Hispanic ethnicity. Not sure of the logic there, but if you put the two together, 41.3 percent of the military are minorities.
Anyway that was my assumption and conclusion to your question, my guess is you were trying to somehow present the argument that more soldiers disrespect Obama than previous white presidents. And my point was that if that is your intent, just make it clear and do not hide behind your attempts in making us all believe that you were to naive and we were too ignorant in your motive. Now of course you have clarified that you have never disrespected a white president and we all will sleep better that you shared your honesty with us.
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I think they should but it depends on the situation. Any subordinate who is disrespectful to any member of the chain of command is subject to UCMJ. Often times, members of the chain of command are disrespected in private conversations (in person and via technology). The other issue with the CINC is that he is the only elected official in the COC. American citizens have the right to express their opinion regarding elected officials. Service members are citizens. They vote and have a voice. Points of view differ. One service member may not agree with a Presidential policy. Another service member may view that as disrespectful.
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In this question I would have to ask what you would consider disrespect? Is it disrespect to disagree with policy, philosophy or religious beliefs. I thought this was America where you have the freedom to disagree. Now that doesn't mean you can make fun of or make disparaging remarks against the president to your subordinates or peers but you do have the right to disagree.
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Well...it is easy for me at this stage in my life to say "NUTS" to anyone. I am older and far much less tolerant of things with which I disagree. While I was on active duty, I loathed president Carter, in spite of the fact that I had voted for him. I thought he was inept and quite inert as a leader, particularly throughout the Iranian hostage crisis. However, I can remember a time when I was out to dinner with my wife and child in Germany one evening, and a drunken German walked over to my table with a small package of peanuts and smacked them down on my table, and in his broken English saying, "Jimmy Cahta ist goot fahma, but NO deeplomat!" I sat there and smiled up to him politely, and maybe even chucked a little bit just to be civil with the guy...but he would not go away and persisted with the same line over and over, which PISSED ME OFF to no end. Thankfully, just at the precise moment I began applying pressure to my chair to move it to stand and clobber this clown, a group of his friends came along and grabbed him and ushered him away from my table. I DID, however, eat the peanuts he left behind, just to be friendly and all. ;)
I think you really need to put this into a context we can work with here. I have the feeling that with this current administration, merely politely disagreeing with our president could be construed as a blatant act of disrespect and land you in serious trouble. Are we talking about voicing our opinion of the man among your closest friends and associates, or walking up to him and flipping the finger in his face? As professional soldiers I would like to think that NONE of us would do anything to be so blatantly disrespectful to the president as that...we certainly wouldn't do anything like that to our commanders on up. If the shoe fits, you have to wear it, and everyone needs to understand that. Just like respect, disrespect is a two-way street, and most people, with a very few exceptions, won't do or say anything disrespectful toward anyone without having been provoked in some way or another.
Seeing as how members of today's military are the ones who are voluntarily signing-up to serve our country and put our very lives on the line for the idea of maintaining our republic and the freedoms we enjoy, which have been handed down to us through generations of others who have made the ultimate sacrifice in order to give it to us, I don't think ANYONE should have to place their gonads in a vault regarding some things while they are expected to have buckets-full of them otherwise. You can still be critical of someone and serve under them and do your best for them. I think this relates to Intestinal Fortitude. When you start wielding UCMJ around in order to control people's attitudes and viewpoints, you've just fallen off of the ladder of respect for most people...we all know and understand that. There is a thing called TACT and INSPIRATION which is tempered with professionalism and Military Bearing which many people tend to forget about on a regular basis. If you wouldn't do or say something toward, about, or to your commanding General, it should also apply to your Commander-in-Chief...simply put. But UCMJ for anything short of directly insulting or disrespecting anyone to their face, or actually committing a blatant criminal act, is utterly gutless and has no gonads. We do NOT serve under a Lord and Master, we serve under a President. And when you think about it, if it wasn't for the outspoken insubordination of a small group of discontented settlers against the Crown, the USA would probably be flying the Union Jack instead of the Stars and Stripes.
My 2 cents. ;)
I think you really need to put this into a context we can work with here. I have the feeling that with this current administration, merely politely disagreeing with our president could be construed as a blatant act of disrespect and land you in serious trouble. Are we talking about voicing our opinion of the man among your closest friends and associates, or walking up to him and flipping the finger in his face? As professional soldiers I would like to think that NONE of us would do anything to be so blatantly disrespectful to the president as that...we certainly wouldn't do anything like that to our commanders on up. If the shoe fits, you have to wear it, and everyone needs to understand that. Just like respect, disrespect is a two-way street, and most people, with a very few exceptions, won't do or say anything disrespectful toward anyone without having been provoked in some way or another.
Seeing as how members of today's military are the ones who are voluntarily signing-up to serve our country and put our very lives on the line for the idea of maintaining our republic and the freedoms we enjoy, which have been handed down to us through generations of others who have made the ultimate sacrifice in order to give it to us, I don't think ANYONE should have to place their gonads in a vault regarding some things while they are expected to have buckets-full of them otherwise. You can still be critical of someone and serve under them and do your best for them. I think this relates to Intestinal Fortitude. When you start wielding UCMJ around in order to control people's attitudes and viewpoints, you've just fallen off of the ladder of respect for most people...we all know and understand that. There is a thing called TACT and INSPIRATION which is tempered with professionalism and Military Bearing which many people tend to forget about on a regular basis. If you wouldn't do or say something toward, about, or to your commanding General, it should also apply to your Commander-in-Chief...simply put. But UCMJ for anything short of directly insulting or disrespecting anyone to their face, or actually committing a blatant criminal act, is utterly gutless and has no gonads. We do NOT serve under a Lord and Master, we serve under a President. And when you think about it, if it wasn't for the outspoken insubordination of a small group of discontented settlers against the Crown, the USA would probably be flying the Union Jack instead of the Stars and Stripes.
My 2 cents. ;)
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Why is this question brought up now, during the presidency of President Obama, never before, never throughout my career have I heard so much disrespect towards our Commander in Chief, prosecute them all under the regulations, I have my opinion about other issues and if I express my opinion freely I will be prosecuted under UCMJ, EO, etc. We have codes of conduct, regulations, rules, and laws to follow, you signed up and took an oath to do so, so do it and shut up about your rights, whats right is right and whats wrong is wrong.
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PFC Chris Hemingway
Really then you must be blind or deaf I saw it all the time during bush. But as soon as Obama took over the bush haters stated that if they caught wind of insults to Obama they would immediately report the person making insults.
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SFC Malvin Espinosa
Sir im relating within the actual ranks of the military not as a civilian, my world and remarks are based on current military life
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SFC Carey Cox
You (SFC) are letting your personal view of the POTUS drive your opinion. It's clear you are an Obama supporter. Soldiers have a right to voice their opinion on their leaders. As long as they follow his lawful orders and not publically disrespect he POTUS then it's fine. Talking amongst soldiers is not publically expressing their views. Public is being in uniforms at a parade, on a news interview, etc. They are still citizens and they definitely have earned the right to free speech. I just hope you never make it to the ranks of SGM. That type of thinking is what is hurting the army today. It's the mentality that Obama wants because he has no respect for the military. My opinion, deep inside he truly wants to turn the US into a Muslim country. And as the POTUS he has been a disaster.
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Respect the Rank. I didn't vote for the President, but he is still my president, and I would still put my life on the line to defend him. Yes, he frustrates me at times but he is still the president of America!
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