Do you think my Article 15 was appropriate for letting my auto insurance expire?

MSgt John McGowan - The Army works a little different and honestly is more liberal (tolerates more) than the USAF from what I hear from former and current Airmen. Army side: Overweight program they give you a bar on favorable actions (no promotion, awards) and usually assign you to remedial Physical Training in the afternoon... if you do not get off the overweight program within a specific timeframe given by the 1SGT then you get a bar to re-enlistment and they have the option to start Chapter proceedings (boot you out). Company grade Article 15, didn't see a lot of loss of rank with that one usually only extra duty. Field Grade Article 15, loss of rank every time and pay.....pretty severe, I think if you get more than 1 Field Grade...they start Chapter proceedings to boot you out. Bad Checks or Tickets in the Army results usually in a counseling statement for first time offense. DUI.....toss of the coin on that one. First time you go to mandatory counseling and get an Article 15 as well. Second time your on your way out but not always. Before he got his MoH SSG Juinta got a DUI with the 173rd Airborne, they decided to give him a second chance and he got a MoH so the second chance thing does work.

SPC Erich Guenther - Thank You for your time to answer me. I'n the long run it looks as it averages out. Still pretty tough be caused shit does happen. Luck to you and again Thanks.

Yep. Concur with everything already stated. No Soldier deserves an Article 15 for a first time offense, unless it's an egregious breach of UCMJ like assault, rape, etc. At the MOST, I would have give you a verbal counseling to get the shit fixed and left it at that. You can't just start throwing Article 15s around without some kind of established pattern of misbehavior, that shows unimaginative and petty leadership.

I'd have to agree. From the information provided, this is something that should have been handled at the lowest rung of leadership. I have had a few soldiers not have French Copies of insurance cards which were mandatory at least at the Brigade Level at Ft. Drum. Something that was easily fixed before the weekend safety brief. Same thing with winter safety kits, child safety seat checks.

I agree something stinks with this story they aren’t running plates during these insoections

I appreciate your candor, SFC Jeff Gurchinoff , however, allow me to rebut and clarify a few points.

1. This was posted in the earlier days of RP with the character limits. So I tried to be as concise as possible, hence the limited information.
2. During this time, I was going through a divorce, and my estranged spouse had the insurance card (the policy for which my spouse assured me had just been renewed) so it was not in my possession. When prompted to procure one, I learned of the dropped policy due to non-payment (separated spouse being petty). I was ordered to correct this immediately, to which I complied and obtained a new policy within the hour.
3. I was counseled to correct the deficiency by my NCO, and followed the PoA therein, but was subsequently given a Summarized Article 15 for the incident despite the counseling and corrections made.
4. I also, later in term, learned that this was done to set a precedent for trouble at BN level, due to a "philosophical difference in opinion" between myself and my 1SG (admittedly due in part to arrogance on my part and also on his) that very nearly came to a boiling point on multiple occasions.
5. I acknowledge the violation of Regulation and Policy, however, my question was if the adverse action was a step too far, taking into consideration that the situation was corrected as soon as I learned of it.

Final point: I was a 22 year old kid with very little life experience, particularly dealing with petty ex-wives and the havoc they can wreak in short order. So my question was more one of development, not complaint. So that when I became a leader, should I be faced with a similar situation, I would have guidance and mentorship from Leaders at all levels on an appropriate course of action, mixingadvice, opinion and personal experience, both first and second-hand.

But again, I do appreciate your candor and will take your stance under advisement, should I ever feel the need to be more of a robot than a person when dealing with a soldier or subordinate in the future.

Oh Em Gee...Are you still in the Army??? :O
Did your buddies put you up to this???
I think you were all sitting around drinking and your buddies dared you to comment.

So let me get this straight, you have been MIA for 5 years and you came back to justify this nonsense? You had an opportunity to accept responsibility for your previous actions and be a man but chose instead to ramble on about... oh what the hell, why not just jump right in...

1. You’ve had 5 years to justify this BS and could have commented (like everyone else did) to clarify as much as you wanted.
2. The stripper you never should have married is no excuse for not having your insurance card in your POV. Which… if you had your insurance card in your POV would have prevented this in the first place.
3. As I stated in my initial post (Bullshittery) If you got an Article 15, I am quite certain it was NOT just for this incident. The fact you are still.. STILL trying to justify this BS after 5 years is proof you’ve learned nothing from your previous… lets just call it an Indiscretion.
4. W in the actual F "philosophical difference in opinion" ???? between myself and my 1SG???? HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OMG dude… Really???
5. See bullet point #3… I think we will just call this random compounding acts of Bullshittery.
Final point: You came out of hiding to justify this stupid post where you cry about having to mop and buff a floor for 7 days. Man up. Some of the greatest soldiers to have ever served have received disciplinary action for worse dumb crap than this. The difference between them and you is they accepted responsibility for screwing up and didn’t candy ass their way around it. You had an opportunity to turn this into an epic drinking story filled with buffers, ex-wife strippers and poor decisions but instead you just want to be a sissy about the whole thing.
So now you’re a 27 year old and in 5 years you haven’t learned a damn thing from this. Leaders don’t feel sorry for soldiers, they hold them to the standard. Soldiers don’t cry they take responsibility for their actions. Until you learn these two very basic facts, you should not lead… ever.
Now when you finally get out of my US Army and go to the VA and the Comp and Pen Doc says “show me on this stick figure where the Retired NCO on Rally Point hurt your feelings” you may get an extra 10%... your welcome.

SFC Jeff Gurchinoff hahahahah, actually no. As I stated before, it's long over and done with. Nor am I still in the Army. As for the "in hiding;" I wasnt. I had forgotten all about this post until someone voted it up and I read your comment. But your lack of understanding of the issue prompted me to clarify. I learned a great deal from this issue. That being said however, the purpose of this whole post was to gain perspective, not to complain. As stated, it was over and done with, and I had accepted that. And, the philosophical difference was a personal issue between said 1SG and myself regarding an external issue that had no bearing on my professional life, but we didnt see eye-to-eye on. And he allowed it to interfere with the good order and discipline of the unit.

Now as a retiree, I'd imagine you've nothing better to do with your time than roust Joe's online, as is your right. But it doesnt make you look like less of an ass for the trouble. But again, thank you for your candor, and I'll keep it under advisement.

and for the record...has anyone else noticed we haven't heard anything else from this young PFC? We're all pretty much calling him out about his lack of information and he is not being quick to answer any of our questions, at least from what I have seen.

You think that's excessive? State fines vary between $75 to $5000 depending on whether it's the first time or not. Some states can also jail you for at least 30 days, if not up to a year.

An insurance company dropping high risk drivers is a benefit to the other drivers under that insurance company, by the way. They are the ones that are really causing increases in your rates when you've done nothing. Also, it's responsible because an insurance company needs to maintain as much clean risk as possible to survive catastrophes and avoid financial default.

Thanks for the insurance lesson but my comment was based on the information given to me. An art 15 for something that was easily fixed is a bit over kill which is why me and my fellow service members believe there was something more to it.

Wow things have sure change in the military sense I was in. I spent 12 years in the Army. Last duty station was Ft Ord. That was in 1986. They never had any kind of POV inspections. And a article 15 for your insurance canceling. He did state that he corrected it right away. I think that is a little to much.