Posted on Nov 7, 2016
Do you think or feel that civilian education equals promotion in the military?
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Promotions
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Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 32
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Option #6: I want to know where to buy that cup in the picture!
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MAJ Charles Blake - Damn spell check. Sell. We could sell more...
SGT (Join to see)
Exactly! I've spent most of my career on flight status as a crew chief...where does one purchase that cup???
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CAPT Hiram Patterson
My education only helped me come in at a higher grade when I was enlisted (PFC) and when I was commissioned (LTjg). Otherwise it had no impact on promotions which were based on my accomplishments, leadership, etc.
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Lt Col Robert Canfield
Yes.....Neat cup. A corollary to: "When trying to diagnose the problem ... never forget to fly the airplane."
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Unless things have radically changed since I retired, civilian education is critical if you want to remain competitive. Completing PME on time is of course a given however back in the late 70s - early 80s I can recall promotion board statistics that suggested you need more than just PME. First they included percentage of selectees with a second bachelors degree. Later they included selectees with advanced degrees and still later they included selectees with more than one advanced degree. I can only imagine what board statistics reveal now. When you see information like that coming out of promotion boards it's pretty obvious that you need to continue with civilian education if you want to keep up with your peers that are being promoted.
Everything on your list of questions matter and a void in any one can hurt come promotion time.
Everything on your list of questions matter and a void in any one can hurt come promotion time.
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CW5 Sam R. Baker
Sir, completely agree and where the Warrant differs is in the CIVED and PME, it is not a requirement on ACTIVE DUTY, but is MANDATORY in the ARNG and USAR for promotion. The CIVED requirement recently changed in the 600-3 for CW4. PME was supposed to be fixed when we dissolved the WO Branch and made commanders responsible for the warrant PME process.
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You can often tell which senior NCO has or has not attended college based on the quality of their writing. PME does a crap job at developing writing skills for enlisted personnel. Officers on the other hand get their boost from their four year degree, and then they polish their skills at ILE.
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CW5 Sam R. Baker
BOOM! SFC Anonymous, spoken like someone who truly has read a few memos or SOPs. I had a request to attend PME run across my desk yesterday and the first sentence was endorsed thru the chain and I guess no one read it, it was in fact illiterate. Oh well, in lieu of pushing back down to the unit, I merely corrected and forwarded to the Commander for signature as it was already not processed IAW directives.
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1SG (Join to see)
No shortage in learning to write memos in WOCS, Sir. At least that was my impression from reading a SOP once. Maybe all the PME levels (O's, WO's, NCO's) need to integrate more military writing into their curriculum
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CW5 Sam R. Baker
1SG (Join to see) - I COULD NOT agree more! I remember going to the flightline back in 2007 and reading the -1's for the Officer Evaluation Report. Most looked like they wrote it with crayons! Now that being said, I am not sure if all paid attention in candidate school or did not have to write as many memo's as I did for demerits!
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I've seen members promoted over their peers simply because they had CIVED their peers did not. The fact these members couldn't lead a unit out of a piss soaked paper bag open in 12 places didn't seem to matter. I agree CIVED should be stressed but it should NOT be the deciding factor on who gets promoted or not.
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Eh not really... personally I found civilian education to be a lot of waste and fluff. I think I learned more from military PME than I did in college. Now I'm not saying education isn't important or valuable, but most college degrees are padded with Gen Ed requirements which are basically just fluff courses. At least military education teaches you what you need to know whether it's be pay grade or by MOS, you're not getting wasted knowledge.
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Cpl Justin Goolsby
CW5 Sam R. Baker - I have yet to pursue education after military service, but I definitely don't look forward to that. I went to school before the military and it bugged the hell out of me that you're forced to take a bunch of classes that aren't even related to your degree.
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SPC Erich Guenther
SFC (Join to see) - Totally agree with your first sentence even though I am clueless on your second sentence. BBA Finance - University of Wisconsin. I'll have one of the best retirements income wise among most of my peers because of it. It's a degree I have used in parts all my life even though my career is in computer programming. I do, however, agree on a large chunk of the Liberal Arts Degrees being useless fluff. Choose the degree and University wisely.
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SFC (Join to see)
SPC Erich Guenther - As an example of what I meant, someone in the Infantry probably isn't going to see the value of a college degree or education as it relates to their job until later in their career when they have to start writing training concepts, awards, or move away from tactical level operations to operational or strategic level operations..
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SFC (Join to see)
Cpl Justin Goolsby - Again, degree selection and choice of school is critical. I sure as hell didn't have "Intro to Poetry" or Gender Studies in my degree program. Matter of fact I didn't have any fluff that didn't relate to my current job. Then again my degree is in Strategic Studies and I am following that up with a Masters in International Relations with an emphasis on counter terrorism studies.
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CW5 Sam R. Baker
Maj Marty Hogan - I do what I can and my father laid the foundation, he was a self professed, "Jack of all trades and master of none" in his own words!
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Suspended Profile
Became. I was told it would be very difficult to make HMC in the Navy without a degree in the 90's.
CW5 Sam R. Baker
Maj Marty Hogan - Thank You sir for the complement about the front, truly the reward is when those you touch and mentor have success and you are able to witness it!
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Maj Marty Hogan
CW5 Sam R. Baker you bet. Not everyone can pull it off. Some talk it some walk it. Some do both without trying.
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Of course. Why should someone with more education be penalized? Say someone with a 4 year degree decides to enlist? They will have far superior skills and knowledge than HS graduates or those who don't have any education or experience past high school. I went in as a PV2 and was promoted to PFC at my 11 month of being in the Army. From there I was able to get an early promotion to SPC along with another fellow medic who also busted their tail.
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I voted performance, but to me, it's the whole package that matters. There are certain things that education can't deliver, but there are others that you can't learn from just on the job training.
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CPT (Join to see)
Agreed. All of it designed to increase the marketability of the application packet for whatever position is applied for.
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A combination of several of these is what matters. Does anyone here want a Brain surgeon who has a skill set based upon PME? Didn't think so. How about a pilot who can't read? Or Commander who only went to schools? Like Whiskey and Wine, sometimes you need the blended version to bring out the best.
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