Posted on Aug 4, 2021
Does being on or off an installation while on leave with a trimmed and lined beard make a difference?
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I’m currently on leave and had went in to check my email and ask about updates while PCSing. My 1SG mentioned my beard was out of compliance due to being lined up, when my commander said he’s on leave, 1SG replied “He’s on a military installation”. I checked AR 680-1 and TB Med 287, and found nothing pertaining to leave. I’m not on duty or in uniform. If I’m ignorant I’d really like to educate myself on the subject because for 15 years this is the first I’ve heard that. But I know he KNOWS regs
Regulation
Leave
Grooming Standards
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 17
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I remember being told shaving still applies on or off duty, leave or no leave, and even to Reservists (I'm sure every reservist is thinking, yea right........ me too but......... I heard it from a General speaking to us as a group and wasn't going to push back on it............ anyway..............)
I'm going to say it's one of those things not commonly harped on, but I certainly wouldn't flaunt it walking into the office to check my e-mail.
I'm going to say it's one of those things not commonly harped on, but I certainly wouldn't flaunt it walking into the office to check my e-mail.
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Suspended Profile
CSM William Everroad - Another consideration is retention and team building. Even if there is regulatory support for soldiers to have to shave while attending college or other wise not on orders an officer or NCO (probably in civilian clothing themselves) reprimanding a junior is not benefiting the guard and reserve overall.
A younger, SPC, version of myself was working at a retail store and recognized a NCO from another company in the battalion. I said "hello sergeant, I'm in F company." His response was "Why haven't you saved?" Obviously it didn't affect my retention but I did my best to not interact the the NCO during drill and I was hesitant to identify myself to other soldiers when I was off duty.
Many soldiers have gone from a civilian job in the morning to an AFTP or MUTA in the afternoon, myself included, and shaved after arriving at the duty location. Unfortunately many regulations don't adjust for the guard and reserve. Thankfully most leaders are like you and put soldiers above blind adherence to regulation.
A younger, SPC, version of myself was working at a retail store and recognized a NCO from another company in the battalion. I said "hello sergeant, I'm in F company." His response was "Why haven't you saved?" Obviously it didn't affect my retention but I did my best to not interact the the NCO during drill and I was hesitant to identify myself to other soldiers when I was off duty.
Many soldiers have gone from a civilian job in the morning to an AFTP or MUTA in the afternoon, myself included, and shaved after arriving at the duty location. Unfortunately many regulations don't adjust for the guard and reserve. Thankfully most leaders are like you and put soldiers above blind adherence to regulation.
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CW3 Matt Tait that NCO sounds like a tool. I remember a similar story in my early enlisted days too! Grateful we have people with common sense and people sense.
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CSM William Everroad
CW3 Matt Tait - Thanks for the story! I have defiantly met leaders in all COMPOS that lack common sense or empathy. Some of us get so caught up in regulatory guidance we forget the intent. I can't say I have never felt the urge to yell at someone walking across the grass because someone 25 years ago yelled at me to get off the CSM's grass, but it is how we approach those situations that differentiate ourselves.
For me, if the Soldier was clean cut, even with a beard, I may make a comment about keeping it professional and have a discussion about what professionalism means to them, but that is about it. I remember one such conversation from a CSM when I was a young NCO. It left an impression, but without me feeling like I messed up:
I was wearing a blue backpack coming back from leave because it was all I had and the CSM mentioned he liked the brand (Osprey). We talked about the need for uniformity and asked if I had a black bag for when I was on duty. I replied that I did not, and he suggested that perhaps a cool way for me to set the example for my Soldiers would be to have everyone walking around with their assault packs and a set packing list. We then talked about load plans and other pre-movement concepts. He did it all without judgement or sarcasm and I walked away feeling "guided" but not harassed. We all need leaders like that, and its pretty easy to do but some leaders just want to be Drill Sergeants.
For me, if the Soldier was clean cut, even with a beard, I may make a comment about keeping it professional and have a discussion about what professionalism means to them, but that is about it. I remember one such conversation from a CSM when I was a young NCO. It left an impression, but without me feeling like I messed up:
I was wearing a blue backpack coming back from leave because it was all I had and the CSM mentioned he liked the brand (Osprey). We talked about the need for uniformity and asked if I had a black bag for when I was on duty. I replied that I did not, and he suggested that perhaps a cool way for me to set the example for my Soldiers would be to have everyone walking around with their assault packs and a set packing list. We then talked about load plans and other pre-movement concepts. He did it all without judgement or sarcasm and I walked away feeling "guided" but not harassed. We all need leaders like that, and its pretty easy to do but some leaders just want to be Drill Sergeants.
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SPC Chris Ison
There is a difference in being "off duty" which is a liberty or pass; and being on actual leave. I would expect a captain to understand this distinction.
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There's no AR 680-1.
All AR 670-1 says is that the grooming regulations apply when in uniform OR when in civilian clothes on duty. Para 3-9 addresses civilian clothing. The first paragraph:
"a. Civilian clothing is authorized for wear when off duty, unless the wear is prohibited by the senior commander. Commanders down to unit level may restrict the wear of civilian clothes by those Soldiers who have had their pass privileges revoked. Within the confines of a military base or a DoD installation, civilian clothing will be worn subject to local regulations."
"b. When on duty in civilian clothes or off duty and outside of their personal dwelling, Army personnel will present a professional image that does not detract from the profession, unless specifically exempted by the commander for specific mission requirements"
This states that for ON base, the commander can determine what is allowed for wear and appearance on base even if you're off duty. Para b says "or off duty and outside their personal dwelling Army personnel will present a professional image that does not detract from the profession, unless specifically exempted by the commander.."
What is your post's policy on attire and/or grooming off duty on base? I'd see if there's a CG policy letter that addresses this or even down to your BDE, BN or company commanders if they address this in a policy letter. If there's a commander who has a policy letter within your unit or the post that addresses off duty on base, then your 1SG could be right.
It depends on your post. Off base it doesn't matter you just have to still appear professional even off duty. But on base, some CGs have policies on attire on base even if you're off duty.
All AR 670-1 says is that the grooming regulations apply when in uniform OR when in civilian clothes on duty. Para 3-9 addresses civilian clothing. The first paragraph:
"a. Civilian clothing is authorized for wear when off duty, unless the wear is prohibited by the senior commander. Commanders down to unit level may restrict the wear of civilian clothes by those Soldiers who have had their pass privileges revoked. Within the confines of a military base or a DoD installation, civilian clothing will be worn subject to local regulations."
"b. When on duty in civilian clothes or off duty and outside of their personal dwelling, Army personnel will present a professional image that does not detract from the profession, unless specifically exempted by the commander for specific mission requirements"
This states that for ON base, the commander can determine what is allowed for wear and appearance on base even if you're off duty. Para b says "or off duty and outside their personal dwelling Army personnel will present a professional image that does not detract from the profession, unless specifically exempted by the commander.."
What is your post's policy on attire and/or grooming off duty on base? I'd see if there's a CG policy letter that addresses this or even down to your BDE, BN or company commanders if they address this in a policy letter. If there's a commander who has a policy letter within your unit or the post that addresses off duty on base, then your 1SG could be right.
It depends on your post. Off base it doesn't matter you just have to still appear professional even off duty. But on base, some CGs have policies on attire on base even if you're off duty.
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Double check AR 670-1, it's been a while, but I belive that it address being clean shaven (or within shaving profile compliance) while in an off duty status.
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CPT (Join to see)
That's my recollection as well. I remember being told on or off duty, leave or no leave shaving still applies.
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SFC Kelly Fuerhoff
It actually doesn't. It states: "When on duty in civilian clothes or off duty and outside of their personal dwelling, Army personnel will present a professional image that does not detract from the profession, unless specifically exempted by the commander for specific mission requirements."
Nothing in AR 670-1 specifically addresses grooming regulations off duty except this saying "be and appear professional at all times." It does address jewelry off duty and on.
Nothing in AR 670-1 specifically addresses grooming regulations off duty except this saying "be and appear professional at all times." It does address jewelry off duty and on.
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