Posted on Jan 8, 2015
Does every MOS/Rate need the same level of fitness? What about an MOS/Rate specific PT test or events?
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I really hope this happens. Not all MOS require the same level of Fitness. I wouldn't use it for an promotion packet against all MOSs as it wouldn't be the same for everyone but I would like to see additional events that address some of the specific tasks that are measures of fitness for some MOSs. For infantry I would add pull ups or even a ruck. If you were a mechanics you might have to be able to hand carry a certain weight over a short distance. I would let senior NCOs in that MOS decide what they would require. The Army should not make every MOS have a different tst. This would impossible. But an example of how this would look is that any one in combat arms or in a combat arms unit would be required to perform pulls and a ruck. If you were in a field medical or medical support unit you may have to do a body drag.
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Be advised. The standard should not be LOWERED. The base APFT with 180 should not be lowered. I think it should be higher. I think it should be especially higher for some areas, such as the combat arms. What this would look like is using the standard test for everyone but adding an additional event. So if you are a soldier that doesn't much physical labor you wouldn't be effected by this. If you were a combat engineer in the 82ND you would be required to a bit more.
*****************************EDITED*************************************
Be advised. The standard should not be LOWERED. The base APFT with 180 should not be lowered. I think it should be higher. I think it should be especially higher for some areas, such as the combat arms. What this would look like is using the standard test for everyone but adding an additional event. So if you are a soldier that doesn't much physical labor you wouldn't be effected by this. If you were a combat engineer in the 82ND you would be required to a bit more.
MOS
APFT
Fitness
Edited 9 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 198
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If I may interject; Is seems to me that the test is not the problem, this is only a reflection f what goes on the other 5 months and 29 days and looking at the current military results...pretty daunting. This looks to me like the recruiting command is having to much influence on standards!
We all know someone who taped out but was overweight as compared to the bodybuilder who taped out due to having a neck like a tree trunk.
I personally was always at my limit of 206 pounds, it was impossible to build muscle becasue I was then to heavy and becasue I have a super long neck (yes, funny!) I could never make the tape test. Because it was difficult to build real mass and muscle, my pecs were suffering and therefore my push-ups, my run always was sub standard die to my short legs and long upper body but I NEVER considered "hey, maybe I should have different standards".
I see this as a way to be able to recruit more sub standard soldiers becasue currently recruitment is not hitting numbers for new recruits.
I certainly hope this does not change, it reminds me of the new way of children's baseball; Every team gets a trophy, no one looses...how will this set the pace for their expectations from life? Do we really need to bring this to the military now...maybe it is the result of those changes years ago ensuring everyone wins.
Steady on!
We all know someone who taped out but was overweight as compared to the bodybuilder who taped out due to having a neck like a tree trunk.
I personally was always at my limit of 206 pounds, it was impossible to build muscle becasue I was then to heavy and becasue I have a super long neck (yes, funny!) I could never make the tape test. Because it was difficult to build real mass and muscle, my pecs were suffering and therefore my push-ups, my run always was sub standard die to my short legs and long upper body but I NEVER considered "hey, maybe I should have different standards".
I see this as a way to be able to recruit more sub standard soldiers becasue currently recruitment is not hitting numbers for new recruits.
I certainly hope this does not change, it reminds me of the new way of children's baseball; Every team gets a trophy, no one looses...how will this set the pace for their expectations from life? Do we really need to bring this to the military now...maybe it is the result of those changes years ago ensuring everyone wins.
Steady on!
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I think one standard for everyone should be the standard, but it should be harder. We have to many people that skate by doing to bare minimum. It would be a great way to help with our numbers for the downsize. I only want to retain the best and if you can't put forth the effort to be the better then see ya. It is a measurable way to see who is better. I understand some people are just faster or stronger, but it is achievable with the right amount of effort.
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If anything, the standards should be raised.
180/300 is failing in every aspect of life except Army PT.
And I don't know if the PT test has changed at all, but it was pushups, situps, and run when I was in. This is a terrible PT test.
It should contain weight equivalent to that of an average soldier. I may be able to run 2 miles in 11minutes, but if I can't carry my battle out of harms way, what good am I?
180/300 is failing in every aspect of life except Army PT.
And I don't know if the PT test has changed at all, but it was pushups, situps, and run when I was in. This is a terrible PT test.
It should contain weight equivalent to that of an average soldier. I may be able to run 2 miles in 11minutes, but if I can't carry my battle out of harms way, what good am I?
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CPT (Join to see)
It is still the same test. They keep on saying that they are going to change it but they never do.
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CPT (Join to see)
So the question ask then should the AF go to one standard? Should they get rid of he PAST for their PJ, CCT, and TACPs? It isn't fair that they are held to another standard. It doesn't matter if a CCT has to go to Halo and scuba and deploy with Special Forces. He should only be held to the same standard as regular Airman. Does this make sense to you?
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SPC Charles Griffith
Your splitting hairs LT people who apply for special warfare are NOT going to settle for just making the grade on any test, they are type A personalities and as such just don't have it in them to just make the grade.As far as their support personnel They are just that support and they don't need to meet the same standard.That being said I have known SWS in support fields So I guess if the Army wants it could probably get them for SWS support if it felt the need. However the system seams to be working as is and I don't think a change in APFT is going to better it just my opinion.
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MSgt Keith Hebert
Plus can you imagine the logistics of giving the standard pt test to 400 + people and then the add on tests for 10+ MOS
Logistical nightmare
Logistical nightmare
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CPT (Join to see)
No, but I would say that if a soldier that is a certain MOS that requires another event they would could be flaged within that MOS but not an overall flag that would limit them moving around in the army. I really don't see why you can't make airborne units perform pull ups as a fourth event of their APFT. It is a requirement to do pull ups at Airborne school. If you can't you will fail out. But when you get to your unit they don't have to maintain that. That is what is in question.
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1SG Nick Baker
Then everyone with airborne wings will need to meet that standard, because you are qualified.
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CPT (Join to see)
You are right. If you are in an airborne unit and are jump status I would still make them meet the standard.
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Ok someome needs to stop tapping the GFI Fairy, this is a stupid idea.
What's a clerk going to do, run around with a box of files? Bench press a computer monitor?
Mechanics will have to tighten 50 bolts in two minutes.
Come one!
What's a clerk going to do, run around with a box of files? Bench press a computer monitor?
Mechanics will have to tighten 50 bolts in two minutes.
Come one!
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CPT (Join to see)
That is a good idea. I am going to go ahead and email TRADOC your idea for the mechanics.
But on a serious note there would never be a PFT for everyone MOS. I would see it as a standard APFT with additional events required by some soldiers. These events would be standardized across the board but your position and mos would dictate what events you take in addition. If you are a Mechanic it wouldn't affect you at all. You would just do the regular test. If you were a CAV Scout you may have to do pull ups and a ruck.
But on a serious note there would never be a PFT for everyone MOS. I would see it as a standard APFT with additional events required by some soldiers. These events would be standardized across the board but your position and mos would dictate what events you take in addition. If you are a Mechanic it wouldn't affect you at all. You would just do the regular test. If you were a CAV Scout you may have to do pull ups and a ruck.
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SFC (Join to see)
Sorry SFC Laws, no offense intended but as I tried to consider events related to MOS and I thought about what a 68K Lab Tech does I got screwed up because they deal with bodily fluids and I DO NOT want to know what event they would do.
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The military maintains a "next man or woman up" program where service members have to be ready to take up the fight at any time, and not necessarily you're specialty. Don't think we need MOS specific test because the current test offers a fitness-level range.
Regardless of MOS, a SM should be able to pass the minimum baseline for basic skills such as rucking, carrying ammunition, manning crew-served weapons, reacting to an ambush, carrying a wounded battle buddy or wingman, and other tactics.
Also, support MOSs often are assigned, embedded, or attached to combat MOSs. You have to able to keep up, pull your weight, often work out of your MOS. Being support, to be respected you must be at least as good as the combat MOSs. Often, you need to be better!
Regardless of MOS, a SM should be able to pass the minimum baseline for basic skills such as rucking, carrying ammunition, manning crew-served weapons, reacting to an ambush, carrying a wounded battle buddy or wingman, and other tactics.
Also, support MOSs often are assigned, embedded, or attached to combat MOSs. You have to able to keep up, pull your weight, often work out of your MOS. Being support, to be respected you must be at least as good as the combat MOSs. Often, you need to be better!
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SFC Michael Jackson, MBA
Not convinced it matters much. i've 49 year olds out performing 20 yr olds and had women not only outperform men, but took up up combat patrols and other missions designated for men. I've women pull wounded men off the battlefield
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CPT (Join to see)
I have never heard of this "Next Man up" program. I would say that there should be a base line. But there are some MOSs that are required to do more. An example of this would be the fitness test at Ranger School. They don't use the standard APFT as it is a poor measure for those in the infantry. The AF so the same thing. They use the PAST. I would love to say that the next man can carry on the fight but what if the 25mm in my bradley goes down and has to be pulled out to fix. That is a heavy gun. I am not sure but how many soldiers out there can pull out a 25mm and put it back in. It is something that is unique to the Mech Infantry. So in that case should we train all soldiers how to do that since they may be the next man or woman in the gunners seat.
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SFC Michael Jackson, MBA
Next man up is just verbiage to say ever Soldier has to prepared to fight and continue the fight when comrades fall. I believe its common knowledge that's how we train. Regarding the PT test, the green berets use the standard PT test we currently use with a score required to pass. In the case, 260 is required at 17-21 age group. Its a higher level of fitness that has little or nothing to do with MOS. Simply, the mission of green requirements. I'm not a green beret or an expert on their requirements so I've included the URL where I got this info. I'm not against requiring a higher score for special duties, but it should be same for everyone performing that duty
http://www.military.com/military-fitness/army-special-operations/army-green-beret-training
http://www.military.com/military-fitness/army-special-operations/army-green-beret-training
If you want to wear the green beret of the Army Special Forces, be warned, it takes more than the ability to do hundreds of push-ups.
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