Posted on Jan 8, 2015
Does every MOS/Rate need the same level of fitness? What about an MOS/Rate specific PT test or events?
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I really hope this happens. Not all MOS require the same level of Fitness. I wouldn't use it for an promotion packet against all MOSs as it wouldn't be the same for everyone but I would like to see additional events that address some of the specific tasks that are measures of fitness for some MOSs. For infantry I would add pull ups or even a ruck. If you were a mechanics you might have to be able to hand carry a certain weight over a short distance. I would let senior NCOs in that MOS decide what they would require. The Army should not make every MOS have a different tst. This would impossible. But an example of how this would look is that any one in combat arms or in a combat arms unit would be required to perform pulls and a ruck. If you were in a field medical or medical support unit you may have to do a body drag.
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Be advised. The standard should not be LOWERED. The base APFT with 180 should not be lowered. I think it should be higher. I think it should be especially higher for some areas, such as the combat arms. What this would look like is using the standard test for everyone but adding an additional event. So if you are a soldier that doesn't much physical labor you wouldn't be effected by this. If you were a combat engineer in the 82ND you would be required to a bit more.
*****************************EDITED*************************************
Be advised. The standard should not be LOWERED. The base APFT with 180 should not be lowered. I think it should be higher. I think it should be especially higher for some areas, such as the combat arms. What this would look like is using the standard test for everyone but adding an additional event. So if you are a soldier that doesn't much physical labor you wouldn't be effected by this. If you were a combat engineer in the 82ND you would be required to a bit more.
MOS
APFT
Fitness
Edited 9 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 198
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The military should not base your physical abilities based on your MOS that is something I don't agree with some things need to stay standard.
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Okay. So why do two soldiers that have the same MOS have different standards then and that is ok. A female MP and a male MP do the exact same job and are expected to perform all the same duties in all areas except the APFT. Is that fair? Isn't that a double Standard.
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SFC (Join to see)
No Sir,
I don't believe the standard should be changed to cater to anyone one specific MOS, what I am saying is that the APFT is set at a standard and it should not be touched or catered to any one specific need, by catering to each MOS open the door to cater to gender and other felonious ideas, with that said Sir I do not agree of changing APFT based on your MOS or gender or creed.
I don't believe the standard should be changed to cater to anyone one specific MOS, what I am saying is that the APFT is set at a standard and it should not be touched or catered to any one specific need, by catering to each MOS open the door to cater to gender and other felonious ideas, with that said Sir I do not agree of changing APFT based on your MOS or gender or creed.
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SFC (Join to see)
The reality is that male and females are truly designed somewhat differently and in a MP MOS situation it is also not 'fair' that women tend to be able to deescalate a situation better involving males then other males could, physical capabilities put aside., one can definilty split hairs wiht everything, and the questionon of wiht what may end up having to do wiht true rationalization. the PT standards are simply differwent based on gender design and known common capabilities, or else we probably wouldn't have any females in our service,let a lone a lot of males maybe.
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SFC (Join to see)
Put it this way if it's not broke don't fix it. Leave the standards as is and keep it moving this is my personal belief regardless of MOS gender creed so forth the way things are leave it as is.
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The big problem with physical readiness in the Army is two-fold.
The first part of the problem is what the Army has become. We have become a culture of powerpoint classes, paperwork, and classroom training. The days of short ruck marches out into the middle of the woods where butcher-block paper classes and actual field training seem all but gone. I spend most of my time in front of computer these days. Civilain studies have proven that no matter how strenuous the exercise is, an hour or two's worth of exercise a day does nothing for you when the rest of the day is spent sitting. Allot of newer-built office are made with desks that require the occupant to stand. Army needs to, litterally, "get off its ass"
The other problem that the Army cannot possibly fix, and that is what the Soldier does after the flag comes down at the end of the day. Soldiers no longer organize pick-up basketball games. They dont go jogging, hiking, biking, or swimming. They go home, crack open a beer, and sit down in front of the TV and play video games. Recreational physical activity isnt cool to younger people anymore. Call it bad parenting, blame the phys-ed teacher, or whatever you want. The truth is that there is no PT test, no PT program that will fix the issue. If I go up in front of my platoon tomorrow and ask for a show of hands of the people who score 240 or higher on their APFT, and then ask who of those people have active off-duty lifestyles e.g. weight training, running, sports ect., I would see that the two statistics are related. I have PT failures that passed the APFT downrange because they had nothing else to do with their free time than go to the gym.
Of course, as a Noncomissioned Officer, I know it is not useful to identify a problem without finding a solution. Honestly, I just don't know what big Army should...or can...do to fix the physical unfitness epidemic in its ranks.
The first part of the problem is what the Army has become. We have become a culture of powerpoint classes, paperwork, and classroom training. The days of short ruck marches out into the middle of the woods where butcher-block paper classes and actual field training seem all but gone. I spend most of my time in front of computer these days. Civilain studies have proven that no matter how strenuous the exercise is, an hour or two's worth of exercise a day does nothing for you when the rest of the day is spent sitting. Allot of newer-built office are made with desks that require the occupant to stand. Army needs to, litterally, "get off its ass"
The other problem that the Army cannot possibly fix, and that is what the Soldier does after the flag comes down at the end of the day. Soldiers no longer organize pick-up basketball games. They dont go jogging, hiking, biking, or swimming. They go home, crack open a beer, and sit down in front of the TV and play video games. Recreational physical activity isnt cool to younger people anymore. Call it bad parenting, blame the phys-ed teacher, or whatever you want. The truth is that there is no PT test, no PT program that will fix the issue. If I go up in front of my platoon tomorrow and ask for a show of hands of the people who score 240 or higher on their APFT, and then ask who of those people have active off-duty lifestyles e.g. weight training, running, sports ect., I would see that the two statistics are related. I have PT failures that passed the APFT downrange because they had nothing else to do with their free time than go to the gym.
Of course, as a Noncomissioned Officer, I know it is not useful to identify a problem without finding a solution. Honestly, I just don't know what big Army should...or can...do to fix the physical unfitness epidemic in its ranks.
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I can't say that I have seen that problem at all. It only shows the difference between MOSs. I am infantry. Hip pocket training happens. On our drill weekend we go to Bragg and get our Bradleys. We take them out to the field and set up a company AA and train.
I can't say the same for everyone. I have always been an 11B and 11A. We don't even have desks. This would prove that we shouldn't have the same standard. We are setting he standard at the lowest common denominator. I don't think it is the answer.
I can't say the same for everyone. I have always been an 11B and 11A. We don't even have desks. This would prove that we shouldn't have the same standard. We are setting he standard at the lowest common denominator. I don't think it is the answer.
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SFC (Join to see)
Hi Sir! I know allot of helicopter crewmembers place allot of emphasis on PT, the idea being that they may need to run a few miles on foot if things go bad. I think if it came down to it, make PT tests MOS specific, but maintain the current height/weight standards and kick out the fatties!
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SSG (Join to see)
The standards are set, period. There are few if ANY issues with them now. There are soldiers with missing limbs that pass their APFT. You don't see them trying to change anything. To all our wounded Heros out there, be proud, just keep kickin it.
So so proud of you and your sacrifices
So so proud of you and your sacrifices
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SSG (Join to see) The question is it one Standard or Standards? I understand that we have wounded warriors that still serve but I am not sure what has to do with this. But we don't have one standard. If that were the case everyone should be judged against the 18 year old male standard. I would welcome that.
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SSG (Join to see)
1Lt Eric Rosa, Try changing the standards at your company level with your commander. If it really works, maybe the Army will catch on and adjust fire.
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Apparently someone high up in the Army see the value in this. Maybe it is catching on.
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I believe MOS specific (gender neutral) PT tests make sense. The PT test should be based on the job regardless of gender. This reminds of places of like Fort Bragg, or Fort Drum in the early 90s (18th Airborne Corps) when we had helicopter pilots and the COSCOM on jump status (really?), and we required everyone to "if you are not Infantry, act like Infantry." The best example was the change in 91-92, when all were required to do the 12 mile road march semi-annually and so many were becoming non-deployable... So, the standard changed to 6 miles for everyone except infantry and those that walked with the infantry... 12 miles for an Apache pilot, a PBO, a Dr. or Lawyer, or even a MP? This makes sense.
Or, perhaps on baseline APFT, then MOS specific and gender neutral standards for each job.
Or, perhaps on baseline APFT, then MOS specific and gender neutral standards for each job.
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SFC Richard M. You are true in some aspects of the Warrior tasks but if you look at the current OE. We have soldiers in Afghan negotiating extremely difficult terrain such as mountains. I am not aware of any task that would prepare a soldier or gauges a soldier for such terrain. In addition to that such common positions such a Ammo Bearer and Machine Gunner are required to carry extreme loads. Yet again we don't see this in any warrior task.
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COL Charles Williams
I agree, all Soldiers are warriors first, and have long valued fitness. The APFT is easy, if you are in shape and stay that way. For many it seems very hard. As a leader the standard should never be to pass, but to max. That said, I still believe there are jobs (regardless of gender) that require certain skills, so I believe this worth looking into. Perhaps a baseline test for all, then MOS specific tests. Interesting discussing, which has been going as long as I have been around our Army.
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SFC Richard M.
Navigating mountains and carrying extreme loads are valid points. But they are also performed during training events as well. Anyone preparing for deployment would be performing these tasks quite often, increasing physical fitness levels as a result. You could even incorporate some of this into your morning PT schedule.
We used to do Motor Pool Olympics periodically in a previous unit. We did things like HMMWV Push, Tire flip, LMTV pull, etc. So it's all in how creative you wanna get. I just don't see the need to make it mandatory and include it in an MOS-specific APFT.
By the way, this is a great topic. Thanks for letting me debate it for a minute.
We used to do Motor Pool Olympics periodically in a previous unit. We did things like HMMWV Push, Tire flip, LMTV pull, etc. So it's all in how creative you wanna get. I just don't see the need to make it mandatory and include it in an MOS-specific APFT.
By the way, this is a great topic. Thanks for letting me debate it for a minute.
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COL Charles Williams
Yes it is, and of course everyone has an opinion. I want all Soldiers to be physically fit first and foremost and don't want us to lower or change standards to make folks feel good.
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I think it should be one standard. You never know when being fit is going to save your life. We are the Army. We are all expected to go to a combat zone during one point in time nowadays. I finance office in Iraq can get attacked and as members of the Army these people should be able to survive and fight back. There is a term for people who shouldn't have to adhere to the Army standards, civilians.
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I think the PT test should be the same across the board for all the MOS's.One Army one standard!
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i just think that would be dangerous. What if I were told I didn't have to score as high as the next guy to pass an APFT? Then we deploy and are faced with a situation involving the enemy? I'm gonna need to be strong enough to save myself and/or my battle buddies and if I'm got I can cause myself to die or someone else. Have to always be tactically and physically proficient.
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Should be same challenging system AND I believe the unit should be required to add one or two events directly related to an MOS. That should cover fitness and ability to perform within your MOS.
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I disagree it shouldn't matter your MOS bottom line everyone is infantry first then your specialty. What is the first thing you are trained? To be a soldier first because if God forbid something happens you have to be prepared to perform.
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This is a horrible idea.people need to remember that they are a soldier, airman, marine, and seaman first. You never know when you will be called upon to perform a task or duty outside of your career field. This will only cause dissent among members in different career fields and have different standards which in turn could reduce the good order and discipline. I know this may be a stretch, but the pt standards are a start.
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