Posted on Mar 12, 2020
Does having received a draft notice make someone a veteran?
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Last night a person that I know from a local motorcycle group (not Legion) said that the group honored her father who recently passed with a flag line. She said that they pressured her into the flag line even though her father never served in the military and she told them that. The headquarters President justified it by saying, “Well he received a draft notice, didn’t he?”
Later in the conversation, she mentioned one of our mutual friends as being a veteran and that he would not have allowed anything like stolen valor. I told her he was not a veteran and that we actually both belonged to the same American Legion and he grew up hanging around the American Legion post, but he is a member of the Sons of the American Legion; he is not a Legionnaire, not a dual member, and he is not a veteran. We argued for about five minutes over this and I finally hung up.
I’m returning my colors tomorrow; I never even wore them but I don’t feel comfortable with this group now.
I see the draft notice as different from actually having served. Am I wrong?
03/16/2020 Edit: Yesterday, one of the members contacted me back and clarified, "The flag lines are for anyone we want to honor, first responders, military, and our families are very high on the list." As they say here in Phila, "I'm feelin some type of way about this." I told him he needs to educate the entire group on who their flag lines are for, and as a representative of the organization, the secretary should know better.
03/23/2020 Edit: The moto group is NOT the Legion Riders -just a local moto org that promotes themselves a veterans and first responders group)
09/07/20 Edit: Well, after much anxiety, I wanted to update about this. Covid hit and I haven't been back to that group. The Sgt at Arms felt I shouldn't make any hasty decisions, but I just knew it wasn't a right fit. More recently, after watching the group respond to peaceful BLM march with "No they don't" when marchers proclaimed, "Black Lives Matter," and screaming at the marchers "Black Lives Splatter," display their flag line as if fellow protesting citizens aren't patriotic, use the local VFW with confederate flags and a woman veteran screaming and flipping off protesters, and watching two of their trucks dump black diesel smoke right in front of peacefully marching protesters, I cut ties with the group by initially removing the vast majority from facebook. The very next day, their Sgt At Arms felt the need to send me a private message on FB, "I see you unfriended me, friend," with a big ole thumbs up, which I ignored. A few days later, he sent me this big long Trump rant about how he was supporting troops (he never served) and I let him have it. I told him I don't care who he votes for, but his behavior doesn't represent me, and if he contacted me again, I'd file harassment charges -and I blocked him on messenger. Two days later he sends a text, "I've been ordered to collect our patches from you. Namely our backpatch and alpha chapter." I told him I burned them and that if he contacted me again, I'd involve the police. So that's that. Always go with your gut.
Later in the conversation, she mentioned one of our mutual friends as being a veteran and that he would not have allowed anything like stolen valor. I told her he was not a veteran and that we actually both belonged to the same American Legion and he grew up hanging around the American Legion post, but he is a member of the Sons of the American Legion; he is not a Legionnaire, not a dual member, and he is not a veteran. We argued for about five minutes over this and I finally hung up.
I’m returning my colors tomorrow; I never even wore them but I don’t feel comfortable with this group now.
I see the draft notice as different from actually having served. Am I wrong?
03/16/2020 Edit: Yesterday, one of the members contacted me back and clarified, "The flag lines are for anyone we want to honor, first responders, military, and our families are very high on the list." As they say here in Phila, "I'm feelin some type of way about this." I told him he needs to educate the entire group on who their flag lines are for, and as a representative of the organization, the secretary should know better.
03/23/2020 Edit: The moto group is NOT the Legion Riders -just a local moto org that promotes themselves a veterans and first responders group)
09/07/20 Edit: Well, after much anxiety, I wanted to update about this. Covid hit and I haven't been back to that group. The Sgt at Arms felt I shouldn't make any hasty decisions, but I just knew it wasn't a right fit. More recently, after watching the group respond to peaceful BLM march with "No they don't" when marchers proclaimed, "Black Lives Matter," and screaming at the marchers "Black Lives Splatter," display their flag line as if fellow protesting citizens aren't patriotic, use the local VFW with confederate flags and a woman veteran screaming and flipping off protesters, and watching two of their trucks dump black diesel smoke right in front of peacefully marching protesters, I cut ties with the group by initially removing the vast majority from facebook. The very next day, their Sgt At Arms felt the need to send me a private message on FB, "I see you unfriended me, friend," with a big ole thumbs up, which I ignored. A few days later, he sent me this big long Trump rant about how he was supporting troops (he never served) and I let him have it. I told him I don't care who he votes for, but his behavior doesn't represent me, and if he contacted me again, I'd file harassment charges -and I blocked him on messenger. Two days later he sends a text, "I've been ordered to collect our patches from you. Namely our backpatch and alpha chapter." I told him I burned them and that if he contacted me again, I'd involve the police. So that's that. Always go with your gut.
The American Legion
Motorcycles
Selective Service (the Draft)
Stolen Valor
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 93
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By that twisted logic, all of the draft dodgers who fled to Canada are Veterans.
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I received a draft notice in 1972. Having received one does not make me a veteran. Having served in the military makes me a veteran.
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That’s a ridiculous notion. As a veteran, how do you feel about a person that got a draft notice and then ran off to Canada? Whether intentional or not, not fulfilling a draft notice makes you NOTa veteran.
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SrA Sheila Holmes
Honestly? Some people aren't made for war, and I don’t judge them for that. But since I’ve been excluded from the Selective Service and any Draft in my lifetime, I decided to ask the question. If you read to the end of the question, I added an edit where they clarified.
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PO1 Robbie Bell
I understand what you're saying but the notion that anyone that did not honor a draft notice is a veteran is not worth asking.
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No, draft notice is telling the person to report. And therefore doesn’t make on a veteran until they served.
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Gee, I sorta recall getting a "draft notice" back c. 1971; just shy of the end of selective service. (Oh, & I STILL have my Selective Service Card.) But sure never occurred to me that NOW I was a veteran!
Chugged down to the "draft board" like a good do-bee, a week or so later; but they had no record of my having registered nor of my being sent a notice.
Trouble was, my family had moved to another state, which is where I received the notice, & I had registered in the state where I turned 18. The board in that state had either lost or misplaced 100s of records: A few hours of "long-distance" calls to find that out. No one could explain who sent or how I'd even received the draft notice. They thanked me for my time.
Some years later, I enlisted. Even much, much later, after I was discharged, I never thought of myself as a veteran until some lawyer told me I was eligible for "some" veterans bennies.
Sounds to me like this "draft notice = veteran" is some madcap scheme to pad the ranks.
Chugged down to the "draft board" like a good do-bee, a week or so later; but they had no record of my having registered nor of my being sent a notice.
Trouble was, my family had moved to another state, which is where I received the notice, & I had registered in the state where I turned 18. The board in that state had either lost or misplaced 100s of records: A few hours of "long-distance" calls to find that out. No one could explain who sent or how I'd even received the draft notice. They thanked me for my time.
Some years later, I enlisted. Even much, much later, after I was discharged, I never thought of myself as a veteran until some lawyer told me I was eligible for "some" veterans bennies.
Sounds to me like this "draft notice = veteran" is some madcap scheme to pad the ranks.
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SrA Sheila Holmes
Thanks for sharing your story! I was born in ‘74 and when I turned 15/16 during the first Gulf, I asked my Dad where I needed to register for Selective Service if I could finish my diploma after Basic. Needless to say, he had some ‘splainin to do!
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Ok, YOU ARE RIGHT! First, a Draft notice recipient is NOT now, nor ever will be a Veteran period. Now it sounds like they are in "Damage Control" Mode. The American Legion National rules and regulations are clear.
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SrA Sheila Holmes
SGT Dan Gray I’m confused. Don’t want to do what? I’m not sure if you read the edit on my post, but they’re now saying they do flag lines for anyone.
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SrA Sheila Holmes
SGT Dan Gray - Thanks for the offer, but if you make it all the way to the end of the post, you'll see that it's not the Legion Riders; while one of the members of the motorcycle org is a member of the SAL, he's not a Legion Rider or a Veteran. Unfortunately, he is the motorcycle group's Sgt at Arms and he continues to harass me across social media platforms. Profoundly annoying.
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SrA Sheila Holmes
There is no Legion Post allowing anything. I'm not sure where that misinformation came from. This is a separate motorcycle group that is not affiliated with the Legion.
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Ask them what rank they were. No rank, not a vet. At least attend basic and be an E-1 to try to claim this...
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SrA Sheila Holmes
Yesterday, one of the members contacted me back and clarified, "The flag lines are for anyone we want to honor, first responders, military, and our families are very high on the list." I told him he needs to educate the entire group on who their flag lines are for, and as a representative of the organization, the secretary should know better.
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F no, there are a lot of Canadians who received theirs befor their new citizenship.
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