Posted on Feb 23, 2017
Does openly and aggressively berating or insulting people who voted for Hillary or Trump warrant an Article 134 violation under UCMJ?
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*First Edit*
There seems to be some misunderstanding: the nature of my question isn't about disrespecting or defying the POTUS, it's about when service members berate, insult or lash out at civilians, friends, peers or family members on social media or otherwise, simply because they voted for the opposite candidate.
*Second Edit*
Also, to clarify, I believe the behavior in question is wrong. I think some folks interpreted my question as asking for justification to be a jerk, but that couldn't be further from the case. I just wanted to generate discussion about people's opinions regarding whether being aggressive or hateful towards voters because of their choice was just being a crappy person, or a legitimate punitive breach of military bearing and discipline.
When President Obama won, there was a deluge of complaints, the birther movement, a different brand of "Not my president." Now that President Trump has won office, there's similar sentiment. On either side, there is a lot of aggression being thrown around. Do you feel Service Members have a higher responsibility to be respectful of the American voters, regardless of their choice?
Respect of the POTUS is a given, we're expected, as service members, to render that. My question is more in line with respecting the fellow Americans that voted; it seems antithetical to me to be aggressive and hurtful to fellow Americans, especially those that have dissenting opinions from ours, for exercising one of the fundamental rights we swore to uphold and defend.
There seems to be some misunderstanding: the nature of my question isn't about disrespecting or defying the POTUS, it's about when service members berate, insult or lash out at civilians, friends, peers or family members on social media or otherwise, simply because they voted for the opposite candidate.
*Second Edit*
Also, to clarify, I believe the behavior in question is wrong. I think some folks interpreted my question as asking for justification to be a jerk, but that couldn't be further from the case. I just wanted to generate discussion about people's opinions regarding whether being aggressive or hateful towards voters because of their choice was just being a crappy person, or a legitimate punitive breach of military bearing and discipline.
When President Obama won, there was a deluge of complaints, the birther movement, a different brand of "Not my president." Now that President Trump has won office, there's similar sentiment. On either side, there is a lot of aggression being thrown around. Do you feel Service Members have a higher responsibility to be respectful of the American voters, regardless of their choice?
Respect of the POTUS is a given, we're expected, as service members, to render that. My question is more in line with respecting the fellow Americans that voted; it seems antithetical to me to be aggressive and hurtful to fellow Americans, especially those that have dissenting opinions from ours, for exercising one of the fundamental rights we swore to uphold and defend.
Election 2016
UCMJ
Leadership
Character
Office of the President (POTUS)
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 205
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Grow up and put a sock in it. You serve your country and the President no matter. You won't always get the out come YOU want, but you are part of huge team . and need to realize this. We have a wonderful system, though it is often slow in action. IF laws were broken it will be found out. Keep the faith and stay vigilant.
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I was in Uniform and was stopped and asked about the Potus and North Korea. I said to the lady I think that the President is doing what any prior president would do or should do (Carrier Battle Group)
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It could be taken as harassment, depending on what was said and how it was said and the relationship between the two parties. If in Uniform and you berate someone, then yes.
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Being publicly disrespectful of another soldier is simply poor leadership. Especially when it is in regards to their political affiliation. Whether or not it is a violation of the UCMJ is a chain of command decision. If you feel that the observed behavior is a violation of the UCMJ you should bring the question to the chain of command for resolution, if it the chain of command that is in question there is always some one higher. Whether or not you decide to exercise that option is up to you. I would recommend taking the offender aside and explaining that their behavior is not acceptable first.
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Great questions and I can only give you my sentiment. I spent 16 of my twenty two years under only two Presidents. Mathematically, 8/11ths of my total service time was equally divided between a Democrat and a Republican POTUS who was also my CinC. At that time, there was no 'social media', per say, so it was a lot easier to hold my disappointment and/or admiration in check, but would never have spoken negatively or positively toward my CinC in public.
I believed, and still do, that it is a moral and ethical violation of the oath I swore to when I enlisted, but not necessarily a legal one. When we start bringing UCMJ charges against a service member who is just expressing an opinion, without crossing the line into actions unbecoming, then that leads into the chain of command charging windmills.
Don't get me wrong, when I was behind closed doors with my peers, family, or friends, I let my feelings be known, but NEVER in a public forum...Especially while in uniform!!!
I believed, and still do, that it is a moral and ethical violation of the oath I swore to when I enlisted, but not necessarily a legal one. When we start bringing UCMJ charges against a service member who is just expressing an opinion, without crossing the line into actions unbecoming, then that leads into the chain of command charging windmills.
Don't get me wrong, when I was behind closed doors with my peers, family, or friends, I let my feelings be known, but NEVER in a public forum...Especially while in uniform!!!
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SP5 Arthur Ben Ephraim
Keyboard Spec Ops......(3) Examples of offenses. Instances of violation of
this article include knowingly making a false official
statement; dishonorable failure to pay a debt; cheating
on an exam; opening and reading a letter of
another without authority; using insulting or defamat
o r y l a n g u a g e t o a n o t h e r o f f i c e r i n t h a t o f f i c e r ’ s
presence or about that officer to other military persons;
being drunk and disorderly in a public place;
public association with known prostitutes; committ
i n g o r a t t e m p t i n g t o c o m m i t a c r i m e i n v o l v i n g
moral turpitude; and failing without good cause to
support the officer’s family.
d. Lesser included offense. Article
this article include knowingly making a false official
statement; dishonorable failure to pay a debt; cheating
on an exam; opening and reading a letter of
another without authority; using insulting or defamat
o r y l a n g u a g e t o a n o t h e r o f f i c e r i n t h a t o f f i c e r ’ s
presence or about that officer to other military persons;
being drunk and disorderly in a public place;
public association with known prostitutes; committ
i n g o r a t t e m p t i n g t o c o m m i t a c r i m e i n v o l v i n g
moral turpitude; and failing without good cause to
support the officer’s family.
d. Lesser included offense. Article
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Your questions goes to a much bigger problem of how social media and society has become more open to just blasting out personal opinions as a right regardless of how others may feel. Sometimes this is good for spurring conversation but mostly you get knee jerk reactions which is exactly what the speaker wanted in the first place. Respect has taken a back seat for many people. For the military it is no different. If the free speech violates stated regulations the speaker must accept the punishment (e.g., refusal to stand or salute the flag) since we all signed an oath, etc.
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I totally understood your question the first time. That being said, it's so sad that at least for me I've been seeing, hearing and as a matter of fact I have even been seeing some people on FaceBook. Tell/ask "friends" that if they didn't vote for "so and so" to please befriend them....Is that the craziest thing you have ever heard of? Well it is for me. Cause once your my friend your my friend for life no matter who you voted for!. Okay now those military personnel who bash anyone for their free right to vote for anyone they want to....first of all shame on you (not you Sgt."Jim") and yes, you (they) should be written up. Why the heck did they join the military then? Why are they then defending this Country and the RIGHT of those who live here and their RIGHT to vote etc.? Sound's to me when these Soldier's bash those who voted for whom ever they wanted for but not the one that the Soldier did, is a big Hippocrat. We're suppose to have an open mind and be balanced and to not judge other's and my being in the Military and having been a police officer has made me very fair and patient. It starts at home where we learn to not pull this kind of crap....Then while at base/post etc., the NCO's must watch out for this kind of behavior as well and stomp it before it get's out of hand and get that soldier councling and or write 'em up if under certain circumstances. Okay that's my 2 cents for now.
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Yes it does. I had to look it up since it been awhile since I read through the UCMJ. Below is an except of the first paragraph. Of more concern to me is possibly the lack of understanding of the oath of enlistment or office. When my son took his oath to serve this country, not much discussion was given to the meaning of that oath. As prior service members and active members, we should take the time to educate our junior, peer and senior members and on-spot correct whenever we see these "Disloyal Statements" being spread, regardless of the medium use to spread it -- Facebook, tweeter, etc. Its the act that needs to be corrected We gave up certain rights in order to service our country faithfully regardless of who leads it. Those we serve to protect can complain all they want, thats one of the reasons we served/serve...to provide our citizen the freedom of speech...however distasteful it is. Take time to explain the rules and we'll have a better service.
72. Article 134—(Disloyal statements)
a. Text of statute. See paragraph 60. b. Elements.
(1) That the accused made a certain statement;
(2) That the statement was communicated to an- other person;
(3) That the statement was disloyal to the United States;
(4) That the statement was made with the intent to promote disloyalty or disaffection toward the United States by any member of the armed forces or to interfere with or impair the loyalty to the United States or good order and discipline of any member of the armed forces; and
(5) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.
72. Article 134—(Disloyal statements)
a. Text of statute. See paragraph 60. b. Elements.
(1) That the accused made a certain statement;
(2) That the statement was communicated to an- other person;
(3) That the statement was disloyal to the United States;
(4) That the statement was made with the intent to promote disloyalty or disaffection toward the United States by any member of the armed forces or to interfere with or impair the loyalty to the United States or good order and discipline of any member of the armed forces; and
(5) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.
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It's just really inappropriate, if not a violation of UCMJ, for an active duty person to get "too" involved in politics. The standard for "too" involved is a low one to trip in my view. You should be able to vote. You should be able to tell your friends and family how you plan to vote. Once you climb further on to that limb though, it gets shaky fast... in my opinion and no, I'm not a JAG officer so take this as opinion only.
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