Posted on Feb 23, 2017
Does openly and aggressively berating or insulting people who voted for Hillary or Trump warrant an Article 134 violation under UCMJ?
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*First Edit*
There seems to be some misunderstanding: the nature of my question isn't about disrespecting or defying the POTUS, it's about when service members berate, insult or lash out at civilians, friends, peers or family members on social media or otherwise, simply because they voted for the opposite candidate.
*Second Edit*
Also, to clarify, I believe the behavior in question is wrong. I think some folks interpreted my question as asking for justification to be a jerk, but that couldn't be further from the case. I just wanted to generate discussion about people's opinions regarding whether being aggressive or hateful towards voters because of their choice was just being a crappy person, or a legitimate punitive breach of military bearing and discipline.
When President Obama won, there was a deluge of complaints, the birther movement, a different brand of "Not my president." Now that President Trump has won office, there's similar sentiment. On either side, there is a lot of aggression being thrown around. Do you feel Service Members have a higher responsibility to be respectful of the American voters, regardless of their choice?
Respect of the POTUS is a given, we're expected, as service members, to render that. My question is more in line with respecting the fellow Americans that voted; it seems antithetical to me to be aggressive and hurtful to fellow Americans, especially those that have dissenting opinions from ours, for exercising one of the fundamental rights we swore to uphold and defend.
There seems to be some misunderstanding: the nature of my question isn't about disrespecting or defying the POTUS, it's about when service members berate, insult or lash out at civilians, friends, peers or family members on social media or otherwise, simply because they voted for the opposite candidate.
*Second Edit*
Also, to clarify, I believe the behavior in question is wrong. I think some folks interpreted my question as asking for justification to be a jerk, but that couldn't be further from the case. I just wanted to generate discussion about people's opinions regarding whether being aggressive or hateful towards voters because of their choice was just being a crappy person, or a legitimate punitive breach of military bearing and discipline.
When President Obama won, there was a deluge of complaints, the birther movement, a different brand of "Not my president." Now that President Trump has won office, there's similar sentiment. On either side, there is a lot of aggression being thrown around. Do you feel Service Members have a higher responsibility to be respectful of the American voters, regardless of their choice?
Respect of the POTUS is a given, we're expected, as service members, to render that. My question is more in line with respecting the fellow Americans that voted; it seems antithetical to me to be aggressive and hurtful to fellow Americans, especially those that have dissenting opinions from ours, for exercising one of the fundamental rights we swore to uphold and defend.
Election 2016
UCMJ
Leadership
Character
Office of the President (POTUS)
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 205
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I believe everyone's opinion should be respected as long as it is show in a respectful manner. Opinions shown by rioting, blocking moving traffic, and hurling insults and callous remarks however don't deserve my respect.
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SSG Jim Beverly
Well said; should be the standard and the expectation no matter what side of the fence you sit on.
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What I have learned is to change the conversation. We are here to serve and stay on mission. We vote, we write our congressman and hopefully stay out of trouble. It also reminds me of Friday night at the NCO club. We are never disrespectful of the SGM or entertain the conversation. We are a unit and we have to work together to get the job done.
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I was told numerous times throughout my Air Force career that we are held to a higher standard. Service members should ALWAYS be professional and their conduct should be above reproach. Public politics has no place in the execution of your duties.
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Whomever is president (it doesn't matter whom: I've been through about 8 of them since I turned 18) is the CinC. Never a doubt. But anything that is said aloud is open for action by anyone at anytime. He just happens to be at the top of the chain of command. All down through that command is a bunch of political appointees and career senior level persons with their own agendas. Some will change over time, others won't. While you are in uniform, you do not have an option to pick and choose your leaders. You go where assigned. It doesn't do you any good to get upset over something you have no control over. You get one time a year to bitch: voting day. That's when you can express your feelings. Your troops don't need to hear you opinion as, you just follow the lawful orders of those above you.
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HN Kathleen M Peck
"Ditto", I couldn't have said it better myself. I do want to mention, when it comes to politics I totally keep it to myself, in or out of uniform. Thank you!
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how someone votes is their business and their right, to berate or insult openly or privately is an insult and works against the unity of the unit and service whether you are ac/rc/ng, remember even though rc/ng you are still held accountable
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The best part of the election right now is Mattis. I'm happier than a retard in a room full of bouncy balls about that. As for berating people for how they voted, maybe it is an age gap, but I would handle it on the spot. I wouldn't start any official paperwork on the issue. I would tell the soldiers involved that, if they couldn't tease each other about politics in a good natured way, then they should shut their pie holes. If it continued, I would call the instigator into the office on Friday afternoon, and give them a pocket Constitution. I would then require them to hand write the Constitution up to the 11th Amendment. They would have to turn it in on Monday morning. This serves two purposes. It takes away some free time on the weekend, and it familiarizes them with the foundation of our Republic.
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Since the election, I have seen on both sides of the fence berating and being down right hurtful to others of differing opinions. I have seen where people that have been life long friends all of a sudden no longer wanting contact with each other. I know of a person that is due to go to a family reunion and has been warned that their are other family members that are quite upset for who they voted for. I have friends that wouldn't talk to me because of the way I voted, even though I never told them, it was more of a case of "You are either with me or against me."
I like a few others in this thread have served under several different administrations, and I like others at the time when in uniform, really didn't care who was behind that desk. I had a mission and an oath to keep and honor. When people talked about politics when I was in, and asked my opinion, I would always tell them..."Ask me when I retire."
The problem as I see it, is because the scenery has changed and it is not to peoples liking, then the system must be broken, hacked, cheated, stolen, whatever they are saying this week, and in reality, it's just the fact that some people have gotten away with the fact that people will always have a difference of opinion or viewpoint. So incomes the bashing, and other stupid actions of people and they should be held accountable.
I like a few others in this thread have served under several different administrations, and I like others at the time when in uniform, really didn't care who was behind that desk. I had a mission and an oath to keep and honor. When people talked about politics when I was in, and asked my opinion, I would always tell them..."Ask me when I retire."
The problem as I see it, is because the scenery has changed and it is not to peoples liking, then the system must be broken, hacked, cheated, stolen, whatever they are saying this week, and in reality, it's just the fact that some people have gotten away with the fact that people will always have a difference of opinion or viewpoint. So incomes the bashing, and other stupid actions of people and they should be held accountable.
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SSG Jim Beverly
This is possibly my favorite response so far. I think you get what was bothering me more than anyone else that's responded :D
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To me, the only way someone knows who you voted for is if you tell them. I don't think anyone should berate anyone for their beliefs, but if your worried about it, don't talk about it.
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I understand your point and question. I think that behavior is unacceptable and should not be tolerated in the military or civilian atmosphere. There should be consequences to address the behavior. I call that political Bullying. Everybody is entitled to the FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT, we all must learn to be respectful regardless of our opinions of others or the situation.
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You don't need to go to article 134 here. Article 117 - Provoking speeches or gestures covers this pretty well. This article may be referred to as the "now play nice, children" article because you can get busted under it just for flipping somebody off or calling them a name.
This is a handy article to remember when dealing with other services because it relates to behavior between any people subject to the UCMJ -- including certain DOD civilians.
This is a handy article to remember when dealing with other services because it relates to behavior between any people subject to the UCMJ -- including certain DOD civilians.
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