Posted on Apr 17, 2018
2LT Infantry Officer
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As per the ARTB website http://www.benning.army.mil/infantry/ARTB/ Ranger school had a 33.1% grad rate for 2017. This is far from the historic average near 50%. Is there any specific reason for this? I know RTTs are now a drop event but that can't be the only issue.
Posted in these groups: P240 RangerTRADOC
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COL Charles Williams
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2LT (Join to see) 12-85, my class, was about 40% left at the end; I thought the historic attrition rate was closer to 60%?
I would say today, it is because many more are weak minded now.
I now deal with HS kids daily, and I have never heard so many excuses for why one can't do PT. I have had 7 kids graduate and attempt RASP, and only 2 lasted; and only one of those two made to Ranger School and graduated. Those 7 were all exceptionally physically fit and capable, but they all did not really want it.
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SPC Erich Guenther
SPC Erich Guenther
>1 y
I would lean towards this explanation. Though I never went to Ranger school my first test o n the Civilian side after ETS was the EDS System Engineer Development program. The program recruited from a largely Veteran pool and the terms were sign a promissory note, if you do not pass the class, you pay back the costs of the class and your fired. So I was on a dorm room floor of mostly Engineers when EDS came to my college campus. Most of them thought "what if I fail?" due to the promissory note vs "what if I pass?". So I got the job as a non-Engineering student because about 99% of the Engineering students were too afraid to apply. Their loss. I also see this a lot on the civilian side of the fence. People do not realize an opportunity even though it is right on the end of their nose because of some aspect in their way that makes them overly nervous. BTW, EDS was forced to tear up all the promissory notes before I graduated the program due to a legal challenge.........of course from someone who failed the course.

Even the job I have now, most folks did not want to apply due to the extensive background check (what if they fail the check and are terminated?). This one actually made me think a little. If your too afraid of a background check..........whats in your past? Oh well.
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2LT Infantry Officer
2LT (Join to see)
>1 y
Thank you for the reply. That makes sense, it just seems that the graduation rate has dropped significantly year after year. 2006 had a 56.2% grad rate and it just seems to drop from there. I would like to think changes to the school had something to do with this apart from the general mindset of the student.
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COL Charles Williams
COL Charles Williams
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2LT (Join to see) - It could be unfortunately, that folks are getting really getting softer and weaker...
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LTC Christopher Hills
LTC Christopher Hills
>1 y
I looked online and found in 1980 the GRADUATION rate was 64%. Then by 2010-2011 the grad rate was 42%. If it is now 33% that is complete incompetence. Either the selection process to let them in school is broken or the standards have continued to get so difficult that nobody can graduate. But the job of the ranger school isn’t to make them elite (that is for the battlefield) the job of the school is to put out ranger qualified officers and NCO’s. If they are NOT doing that, then everything needs to be reevaluated from selection, to training, to staff and alleged standards. Since the creation of the course in 1951, the overall average grad rate is right at 50%. So we are doing something wrong.
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SFC Inprocessing
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I’m not currently Ranger qualified, but I’m stationed at 6th RTB and I will say this...

If the quality and discipline level of Soldiers decline with the regular Army, so shall the Ranger population.That’s what has happened during the last decade. It’s as simple as that, Sir.

I definitely recommend attending the course, especially as an Infantry Officer, but it really is that simple.

Good luck!
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CPT Senior Instructor
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I am Ranger and Ranger Instructor qualified. I worked at the Ranger and Training Assessment Course at Fort Benning. I can speak a bit to this. But the 50% success rate is pretty rare. I can't say I have seen it that high. My class back in 2014 was at 33 percent. There are a few reasons as to why it is that low. The proficiency of soldiers today is something that needs to be improved. At times soldiers go to ranger school and they are not familiar with infantry tactics and weapon systems. This is especially the case with non-combat arms soldiers. RTT came about due to soldiers in Ranger School not having the acknowledge to function weapon systems. If you are Ranger Qualified you would be expected to know how to use those infantry weapons. That is just one issue. When you go beyond that Ranger School is open to all MOS's. If believe if you just had infantry it would be higher. When they opened it up to pretty much everyone you added soldiers that were not familiar with small unit tactics or infantry operations. They are going to be hit hard. The school doesn't change but it has to figure out how to maintain a standard of proficiency. Over time they will adjust the training to reflect what is coming to them from the force.
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2LT Infantry Officer
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Thank you for the response. That makes. These are the numbers I'm looking at http://www.benning.army.mil/infantry/ARTB/content/pdf/Ranger%20School%20Performance%20for%20FY16.pdf . Thes one I found for 2008-2010 were all over 50%.
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MAJ Infantry Officer
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1LT I’d like to pick your brain a little about the course.
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LTC Christopher Hills
LTC Christopher Hills
>1 y
The overall average since 1951 is right at 50%. In 1980 they graduated 64%. In ‘14 it was 42%. It is inexcusable that they are graduating anywhere lower than 50%. Either we are not preparing soldiers or we are not selecting the right soldiers to attend or the cadre and standards need to be reviewed. But the job of the school is to put out ranger trained soldiers. Not doing so simply wastes money and manpower. It is possible that branches (or units) need to put together train up courses. Hard to say. There was a time (Vietnam) when all officers attended, but by the 80’s it was nearly impossible for non-combat arms officers to get it... now it is open again. That is all about budget.
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SGT Dan Brooks
SGT Dan Brooks
>1 y
I was a Ranger Instructor 1977-1978. 30% - 40% was a typical pass rate. We did not view it a school to pass Rangers, but to pass leaders. It was meant to produce people who a had a greater willingness to persevere in the face of adversity and motivate others to do the same. Sub 50% is entirely reasonable.
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Does Ranger School currently have the lowest graduation rate ever? If so, what's going on?
SFC (Other / Not listed)
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It isn't just Ranger School. The same issues have been noted at the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course. Bottom line is that extended dismounted patrolling skills and land navigation by compass and map are severely atrophied skills because the military has spent the last 15 years doing mostly mounted patrols that rarely last more than 12 hours.
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MSG Student
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A lot of units are filling training calendars with collective tasks and leaving the individual tasks to "white space" that isn't really there. While Ranger School is mostly collective tasks, those tasks are only performed as well as the individual tasks that comprise it.
Worse classes I ever saw as an RI, the two classes after Ranger School was opened to women, a lot of soft skill Soldiers thought the standards would drop so they tried their luck, worse pass rates I saw in 4 years.
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SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth
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IMHO sir, it's lack of physical and mental discipline.
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CPT Don Kemp
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I am not qualified to answer your question about a specific class’ graduation rate, but the average is just that - an average. Winter classes tend to have lower rates if memory serves me correctly. I started in Ranger Class 5-73 Frostbite Five; Coldest Alive.
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CDR R. Mark Lusted
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First a disclaimer. I did not attend Ranger School; in fact, I was in the Navy. However, I did attend Navy Nuclear Power School, and I was the director of the Submarine Officer Basic Course, and I have a number of friends that have attended Ranger School... some graduated and some did not.
While the preparedness and motivation of the incoming Ranger School students may well have declined, it is perhaps too convenient to blame the serious decline only on student quality. Part of the answer, at least, may also be the quality of the instruction at Ranger School. As I've talked to grads and drops, one of the common themes seems to be very poor consistency in the feedback students receive when they fail patrols; it seems that frequently students that are recycled have a very poor idea of where they need to improve. There is a lack of consistency between instructors in how the students are graded... particularly in the Darby Phase, and while a certain amount of "unpredictability" can enhance a curriculum, that unpredictability should be carefully planned and should not preclude the feedback that is crucial to the learning process.
The other area to consider is the culture in the Army that has grown up around Ranger School as a right-of-passage - particularly for the infantry. This encourages sending units to send both officer and enlisted students to the school as an "automatic" step without screening them for motivation.
In an attempt to reduce the failure rate at RASP, many Army units have put in place "pre-Ranger" courses that do not have standard curriculums and are not administered by trained instructors. Further, these local pre-Ranger courses are not monitored for effectiveness, and may actually do more harm than good.
All that said, the benefits of Ranger training are tremendous. The philosophy behind it great. I wish that the Navy had had something like it.
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1LT Cadet
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I will tell you what Special Forces cadre told me. Unfortunately, bringing in women cause a problem for hardened, simple minded males. If the attrition rate is super high, when every female is dropped, no one will bat an eye. Why? Statistically it was bound to happen.
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SGM Bill Frazer
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Probably because if 75% of todays youth can pass a AFPT to join the Army, then the current crop probably can't gut out RASP.
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