Posted on Jan 24, 2016
Maj Kim Patterson
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It takes the courage of a warrior to seek help. It takes the stroke of a political pen to send those who need help back into hiding if we want to own weapons; this seems to me like it could easily turn into a witch hunt, something like the Salem witch trials. Broken down to the most basic question: are you willing to permanently turn in your weapons to get help for PTSD?
Posted in these groups: 78568930 PTSD
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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Service Members had a hard time seeking Medical Help (et al) because they feared it would end their Careers. Now imagine that same concept, but with Civil Protections.

I have a friend who the VA unceremoniously declared "incompetent" (via letter, not via Court) to handle her own affairs after a 15 minute interview with a VA Doctor. She had to fight to get that overturned.

Do you really think Vets are going to give the Government "an inch of rope" when we know they'll take a mile?
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1stSgt Eugene Harless
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What a load of horseshit. My VA mental health survey had the question "Do you own any firearms in your household" I answered in big letters "NONE OF YOU F%$&KING BUSINESS" . When I spoke to my mental health conselor and she seemed a bit confused I asked her if she didnt think it was Ironic that Every 3 months the VA gives me enough pills to commit suicide or poison someone else with 100 times over and they want to worry about MY guns?
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CPT Military Police
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1stSgt Eugene Harless When my son had his physical for school this year they had a questionnaire for him to complete on it was the question "Are there any firearms in your household?"
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SGT Department Supervisor
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Very much, ma'am! It's one of the few reasons that I personally don't want to talk with anyone at the VA about PTSD. We'd likely be the first to be DQ'd from gun ownership in a proposed bill/law. It's unfortunate but realistic. Maj Kim Patterson
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Does the ongoing discussion regarding gun possession and seeking psychological help for PTSD seem like a Catch "22" to anyone else?
SPC James Dollins
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While I am diagnosed w/ PTSD, I don't know how I would handle having to turn in my weapons. They aren't only for me, but for protection of my family as well. So I would be HIGHLY upset!
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CPT Military Police
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Edited 10 y ago
Maj Kim Patterson No I don't think it is appropriate. Congress has already approved the likelihood this will be done in the recent passing of legislation. Yes it does. "The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS or “the Department”) is issuing this final rule to modify the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) Privacy Rule to expressly permit certain HIPAA covered entities to disclose to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) the identities of individuals who are subject to a Federal “mental health prohibitor” that disqualifies them from shipping, transporting, possessing, or receiving a firearm. The NICS is a national system maintained by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to conduct background checks on persons who may be disqualified from receiving firearms based on Federally prohibited categories or State law."
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MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
10 y
Not exactly true MAJ (Servicemember). As an EMT, I'm very limited as to who I can release patient information to. For example, I am not allowed to even discuss particulars with fellow EMS unless they were directly involved with that patient's care. As for a doctor's office or hospital being able to contact NCIC, I will have to research that one more. I don't know enough about the changes to comment.
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CPT Military Police
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Maj Kim Patterson The above that I cited is true and was approved on 1/4/16 Here is a link to the pub if you want it.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2015-33181.pdf

MAJ T M. MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
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MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
10 y
Thanks for the link Maj Kim Patterson. Some very disturbing language in that document. Looks like a determination of "incompetence" can be made simply because you use automatic bill pay or direct deposit.
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CPT Military Police
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PO1 John Miller
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Maj Kim Patterson
In short, NO.
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SGT John " Mac " McConnell
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Looking at this from all angles, I feel this is the tip of the iceberg. Grant it ,some people should not own guns because of mental incompetence. But there has got to be a better way of handling this issue.
With this said. Is the federal government going to use mental health " Which is a broad spectrum !" to grab guns ? PTSD, The Elderly,and the list goes on.... Could our 1st Amendments rights be used against us ?
For example, I speak out against something on social media that I feel strongly about. someone see's it and is offended. Then I either become a racist or have a phobia. They report me to the authorities . The authorities now put me on a watch list...... "Do you see where this is going ?" I hope this is not the case !
This has happened throughout history. I hope we do not repeat it ! I think I will stick with my guns on this one.........
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SCPO Carl Wayne Boss
SCPO Carl Wayne Boss
10 y
Sgt. McConnell; some may read your statement and call you a conspiracy theorist...

Given what I see going on in Government from the Feds on down to some State and Local jurisdictions... I'd call you a "Realist"... due to indicators from current Whitehouse, Bureaucrats in HHS, the VA among other various & sundry Federal Agencies & Offices and with regard to the prattle of Liberal/Socialist types and "Gun-grabbers" of all strips...

I see momentum & incremental steps slowly being taken as various Federal Agencies are beginning to gather unto themselves & testing the waters to use every possible means they can dream up, to either remove firearms from "everyone's" possession or make it a felony for anyone they don't want to have them, which basically is the same thing...

I fear there is a fight coming over this issue... And "We the People" ... are going to be pitted against our own Government in the end. Now I'll be called the "conspiracy theorist"!

It wouldn't surprise me to soon see the "Napolitano Theorem" go active... that all former & retired Military Personnel are dangerous and can't be trusted when no longer under the Government's "control" and as soon as the "discharge" or "retirement" papers are signed we'll no longer be allowed to own firearms, because we know too much about how to "use" them! I believe the current administration is capable of twisting reality any way it choses and will do so as it suits them.

Can our First Amendment rights be used against us... you betcha Red Rider! Of course... anyone with any kind of horse sense at all can see where this kind of thing could potentially go. "Stick to your Guns"... Son... maybe we'll be wrong... but the odds don't look to be in any Gun Owner's favor...
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SGT John " Mac " McConnell
SGT John " Mac " McConnell
10 y
your right SCPO Carl Wayne Boss .. I hope it don't go that way...Too many variables involved . conspiracy ? No . But we cannot dismiss what is going on in America... That's when "WE the people. " will stand...
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GySgt David Weihausen
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Although I don't suffer from PTSD, I would be extremely leery of ever being evaluated simply because of the current push from the left to equivocate it to my gun rights. Does anyone else feel this way?
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Maj Kim Patterson
Maj Kim Patterson
9 y
GySgt David Weihausen I have similar concerns. It is too late for me. I needed to say something or die. My father, who I referred to onften, had horrendous PTSD after WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. He was a gunsmith in his civilian time following in the footsteps of his father. I don't know what would have been worse, losing his collection or living without treatment, PTSD is hell and there are now thoughts that it might be multigenerational with second hand effects.
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SCPO Carl Wayne Boss
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It's a "Double Edged Sword" for sure Major; In a lot of ways it's a "Red Herring"... one the current Administration, Liberal Politicians and those with gun banning on the brain in general, have come up with to further throw a monkey wrench in private gun ownership's machinery... I'd sooner trust the judgment of the majority of current & former military people with or without PTSD with firearms, more than I do some of those in government with a pen in theirs!

Their arguments are bogus and they know it... guns don't cause shootings, any more than knives cause stabbings, automobiles cause automobile accidents, pools cause drowning or hammers or baseball bats cause people to be bludgeoned to death...

All those occurrences are caused by other people wielding those and other devices that are often employed as tools of destruction against their fellows, rather than the uses for which they were intended. A gun is a tool, just like a hammer or a knife, it serves a purpose, when "properly" employed in defense of self or another as protection or as a weapon of war... when used to murder or maim it is a CRIME and the user/perpetrator should be treated as a "Criminal" and prosecuted as such.

Law abiding gun owners should be left alone. If guns are taken from all citizens, then all security guards, police and secret service protection should be removed from all governments representatives from the President on down, so they may have the privilege and opportunity of living without protection, just as the rest of us would have to and be at the mercy of the Criminal elements who are not going to comply with the law, no matter what it is!

The rest of the "law abiding populace" should not be continually persecuted for the "illegal" acts of a "Criminal". "Illegal Acts or actions of a "Rogue member or members of a Government" should also be prosecuted for the mis-application of the Laws as they currently exist... unless said law is changed by a vote of "We the People" as set forth in the Constitution itself! Like the man said... they can have mine when they pry it from... well you get the picture!
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Maj Kim Patterson
Maj Kim Patterson
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SCPO Carl Wayne Boss you have fleshed out my personal opinion in your clearly written response. Thank you.
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SPC Joel Willman
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I feel this issue is the perfect example of giving them reasons to Have a News Heading if something should go bad.
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