Posted on Dec 1, 2013
SSG Claims Representative
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I was at the gym with my soldier and he was wearing his army PT shirt with civilian shorts.  When we were about to leave a SGT from another unit told him that he was violating regs.  The PFC tried to explain that he was not in uniform because he was only wearing the shirt.  The SGT again said it is out of regs.  I came to my soldiers defense and asked the SGT if there was a local regulation about PT wear.  The SGT asked me if I was backtalking him.  I said no SGT I was asking for clarification if he wanted us to look it up in AR 670-1 or if there was a local ordinance.  He said look up AR 670-1,  we know that our soldier was not doing anything wrong because we had looked this up before.  What are your oppinions on this.  I see many SGT vaguely citing regs and not knowing the exact wording of the reg itself.
Posted in these groups: 4276e14c UniformsImages 20 NCOsDiscipline1 Discipline
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SSG (ret) William Martin
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Was he out of uniform by wearing his IPFU shirt with civilian gym style shorts?  That depends on the "intent" or like the CW2 said, the time of day but it also needs to mentioned whether are not he was on personal time.  Other than that, I found this:

 

14–4. Occasions for wear


The PFU and the IPFU are authorized for wear on and off duty, on and off the installation, when authorized by the


commander. Soldiers may wear all or part of the PFU or IPFU with civilian attire off the installation, when authorized by the commander.

 

AR 670-1, 3 Feb 2005.

 

Well that's what the reg says. 

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SSG Claims Representative
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yes we were on personal time and we are authorized civilians as our duty uniform
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
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Give it benefit of doubt, follow along, see what Reg says. I would say avoid the hassle and bring along another shirt . That easy..
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SSG Detachment Sergeant
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Seen that happen before and it's happened to me. Local/ Base Policy or your Commanders discretion. Or stand at parade rest and Roger that.
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SGT John Wesley
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Just seems a bit petty, but regs are regs... I would of told the soldier to just take off the shirt... That is one of the things that irks me about regs. It's a friggin t-shirt people! Stateside always sucked for spit shine, dog and pony crap. Sorry but let's focus on REAL issues...
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TSgt Thomas Monaghan
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INot if your retired lol
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SSG (ret) William Martin
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First, "back talking" is for children and teenagers. We are professionals, we do not use phrases or words like that with our subordinates. Using such phrases or words shows a lack of a proper military vocabulary. I can't take leaders seriously when they speak like that with Soldiers. Second, unless I know where the regulation is exactly and I can almost repeat it I am going to keep on walking. Obviously some rules and regulations are easy like boot strings hanging out of the boots or untucked shirts.
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MAJ(P) Operations Research/Systems Analysis
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We are making this harder than it needs to be. The best way to mitigate any confrontation is always be 100% in the "right." Too many individuals looking to skirt regulation guidlines based on their interpretation.

The real question is: why even chance it? Did your Soldier have no other shirt? Do you know your post's policies regarding uniform wear in on-post gyms?

My recommendation for a situation so trivial is to back up the other NCO. Since you posted the question, clearly you're not 100%.

Ii applaud your efforts to support your Soldier. However, in this instance, your actions could be interpreted as undermining an NCO senior to the situation. Next time, walk up to the situation and say, "roger, we will correct it."

Trying to better interpret a regulation or command policy with another NCO is an action you handle one-on-one; certainly not in front of subordinates.
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CPT Student
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I would do just about anything to never wear the PT or any part of the PT uniform ever again. Least functional, least user friendly athletic apperal I have ever worn.
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SFC Bde Mobility Nco
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That sucks cause I wear tan shirts all around my house, yard, and running to the store. Pt shirts too.lol. People don't think I'm in the army anyways lol. I do it on base though
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SSG (ret) William Martin
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I have worn non serviceable PT shorts with a civilian shirt at a gym on post but I think that is different.
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SFC Military Police
SFC (Join to see)
11 y
I think if it's army issued you should not be able to wear it outside of work... Unless specifics with recruiting or a special assignment like that.
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SSG (ret) William Martin
SSG (ret) William Martin
11 y
SSG Theobald, That's right, and I agree unless its unserviceable.
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SGT Cda 564, Assistant Team Sergeant
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<span style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);">670-1</span><div style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);">paragraph 3-9</div><div style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);"><div>g. Uniform items authorized for wear with civilian clothing by males are restricted to the gold cuff links, studs, tie</div><div>bar, mourning band, footwear, socks, gloves, undergarments, black bow-tie, wool scarf, all-weather coat, fleece caps,</div><div>and physical training uniforms.</div><div>h. Uniform items authorized for wear with civilian clothing by females are restricted to the white shirt without</div><div>insignia of grade, footwear, gloves, handbag, clutch purse, wool scarf, all-weather coat, fleece caps, and physical</div><div>training uniforms.</div></div>
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SFC(P) Military Police
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Too many uniform police.  As other responders have mentioned, policies vary from post to post.  Either one policy for all or just let it go.
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SFC Military Police
SFC (Join to see)
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That's what wrong with the army today and NCOs not informing young soldier on standards! That's a lazy answer
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SFC Bde Mobility Nco
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No the problem is the army having hundreds of uniforms and standards. When I came in the army things like that was clear cut black and white
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SFC(P) Military Police
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11 y
Didn't know I had to be in depth.
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SFC Cavalry Scout
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Edited >1 y ago
I sometime wear the PT shorts (with the liner cut out of course because it sucks) with civilian exercise gear. Basically because most civilian shorts come down to my shins and because if...IF...you can find them on sale at Dick's they cost $30. that being said, it's up to the post commander to authorize mix and match when wearing the IPFU. General rule of thumb, when in doubt, if you are wearing part of the IPFU wear it all, including the dang reflective belt.  
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SFC Infantryman
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You have to look at different things though. It might not be in an Army Regulation but I am sure it is stated somewhere. The last couple of units I have been in have what is called the Blue Book. It is a book of additional standard that Soldiers in that Unit must follow. Remember a Leader can always add to but not take away. Here at JBLM we have the 7th ID blue book. It states in there you can not mix civilian and military attire. It also states that you cant take off your blouse while driving in a POV or wear a ball cap.


 

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LTC Latin Teacher
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I'm cheap. I always wear my Army running shorts when running. I don't wear the IPFU shirts because then I would be in uniform, have to tuck it in, shave, etc. However, those shorts (and the pants) are awesome for civilian use, and I use the heck out of them. I even stocked up while deployed so that I would have a lot on the side. The regulation is clear: we can mix and match PT gear. I'm happy to do so.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>Now, were I RA, and were I on a post which specifically banned such mixing and matching, then so be it. I would suck it up, and buy two or three pairs of running shorts at a stupid expensive price.&nbsp;</div>
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SSG (ret) William Martin
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I have a pair of flame retardant (FR) ACU pants that I took to a Taylor to modify into shorts.  Now I have something that looks like I purchased from a store such as Clothing and Sales.  Does anyone think that is out of line?  If you do it does not make me a terrible NCO.  That might be someone personal belief or ethics which are not to be confused with what is regulated.
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CW3 Network Architect
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>1 y
Why didn't you take them to a tailor instead?  You might have gotten better service.  ;)
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Cpl Robert Clark
Cpl Robert Clark
>1 y
Sgt, I remember in Desert Shield/Desert Storm that is was sooooo hot that we would cut our cammie bottoms into shorts, just below the pockets... I noticed not too long after returning, the change in shorts for men... suddenly they were all "cargo" shorts and too many had a F'd up camo pattern... In my arrogant opinion, as Chick Hern (the late great announcer for the LA Lakers) used to say, "No Harm, No Foul."
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SPC Gary Basom
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Wearing a pair of blue jeans and a military shirt (blouse) is being out of uniform.If you wear a uniform item, I think it must be a complete ensemble of that uniform. I believe you are even out of uniform if you do not wear your rank insignia. Now I think unit SOP states that if there is an activity that requires a mixed uniform item such as PT shirt, uniform pants and boots, or sneakers it is authorized. The Army or Navy regs or Marine regs will state what is authorized.  
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