Posted on Jun 12, 2014
SGM Matthew Quick
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Idiots
Not sure if it is authorized or even appropriate, but what are your thoughts about our senior leaders drinking (taking shots, specifically) while in the Army Combat Uniform?
Posted in these groups: 140114202911 large AlcoholPolicy Policy4276e14c Uniforms
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SFC Stephen Carden
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There is a long culture of drinking in the military, as far back as 1776 I'm sure. Alcohol was, until the 1980's, an accepted part of military life, and even an encouraged social activity. Soldiers stationed in Germany were allowed two beers with lunch until right before I got there in 1993 (figures). Officers were expected to go to the "club" for social functions on a regular basis. Hell, most commanders and 1SGs had a bottle of something in their desk! During the post-Vietnam professionalization of the Army, this fell out of fashion for the most part. There are still occasions where NCO calls or officer calls or leader's calls still happen, but they are getting more rare. I think the zero tolerance policy on DUI has something to do with that (this picture was on-post at Ft. Lee. I wonder how many of those SNCOs were driving home afterwards?) as well as the stricter fraternization policy. I, for one, do not want to hang out on-post with the same people I just had to spend all day with anyway. I want to head to the house, take off the uniform, and have a few beers without having to drive afterwards. A scene like this makes me wish that there were seperate clubs for the different ranks. SNCOs getting hammered and acting like frat kids should not be witnessed by junior Soldiers. What happens when one of the SNCOs in this picture has a Soldier who is involved in an alcohol-related incident? If that Soldier had seen the event in the picture occurring, do you think that SNCO would then have the credibility to counsel that Soldier on his abuse of alcohol? I don't.
I think that drinking alcohol in uniform is never a good idea, unless it is one or two beers at a unit function. If you are going to pound shots, it is just too easy to bring a change of clothers to the office, or go home and change. Then again, if this was at Fort Lee, then we are talking about the QM corps (of which I was once a part), so they probably have to drink to drown out the depression over their miserable existance!
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SFC Military Police
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Your absolutely right we were allowed to have a beer with lunch and many did but for some reason people were more responsible about it. Hell the soda machines has beer in them then.
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1LT Vice President And Controller
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It is like alcohol in Europe and US, it is not taboo and off the pedastol so people don't over indulge as often.
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SFC Military Police
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Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. Perception is reality in our business and the perception here is the relationships between the seniors and subordinates is far too confortable. In my opinion if you are in uniform you are on duty and the legal alcohol limit is .05 to be drunk on duty.
IAW AR 670-1
4–3. Occasions for wear:
(2) Personnel may not wear the combat uniform in off-post establishments that primarily sell alcohol. If the off-post establishment sells alcohol and food, Soldiers may not wear the combat uniform if their activities in the establishment center on the drinking of alcohol.
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Cpl Ehr Specialist
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When I was active duty, it was instilled by my leaders that as a Marine I was always on duty, uniform was irrelevant, and therefore my actions should be mindful of that fact. Reality dictates that though being in the military is 24/7, "on duty" is a function one performs for a period of time. Would it be more appropriate to outline what constitutes "on duty" and regulate actions performed in that capacity?
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Cpl Ehr Specialist
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Exactly my point.
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SFC Military Police
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Well sir perhaps it is just me that believes when you are in uniform you are on duty and should act accordingly. However there is this thing called the NCO Creed that we are supposed to live by and in that is a line that states " I will at all times conduct myself so as to bring credit upon the Corps, the military service and my country".
To me this action does none of that.
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SFC Military Police
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As I said sir, it's probably just my view. Each time I put this uniform on whether it's for one hour or one year I consider myself a representative of my branch and my country and believe my actions and behavior should be above reproach. In the 20 + years I have served I have watched the systematic destruction of my Army and it's standards and it saddens me that we have allowed the PC police to dictate how we handle discipline in the services. This is not Walmart this is a profession of arms that requires the best that America has to offer. A great quote from a favorite movie " We follow orders Son, we follow orders or people die, it's that simple". A bit dramatic? Probably to some but to me it's the essence of what we do and who we are.

General Charles De Gaulle once stated "“Men who adopt the profession of arms submit of their own free will to a law of perpetual constraint. Of their own accord they reject the right to live where they choose, to say what they think, to dress as they like. From the moment they become soldiers it needs but an order to settle them in this place, to move them to that, to separate them from their families and dislocate their normal lives. On the word of command they must rise, march, run, endure bad weather, go without sleep or food, be isolated in some distant post, work till they drop. They have ceased to be the masters of their fate. If they drop in their tracks, if their ashes are scattered to the four winds, that is all part and parcel of their job.”
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SPC Patricia  K. (Williams) Elliott
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Disgraceful!!
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MSgt Chandos Clapper
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When I joined in 1977 we were expected to be at the NCO Club every Friday to show our support to MWR! Times have certainly changed.
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PO3 David Davis
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Are they on or off base? On base no problem. off base have a Dress uniform i say no problem.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
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ON Post in a All Ranks or Service Club...Not a good Idea
OFF Post in any public establishment... It can devolve into "Conduct to bring discredit upon the service"
Soldiers, especially Senior NCOs and from the insignia of the example photo in the Recruiting or Career Counselor Fields are in the public eye. A misperception could severely damage their ability to perform the mission and could destroy the reputation that the USAREC personnel have in a certain geographic area.
It appears that it was just friends having a good time, Awesome, BUT if I were the Station Commander, NOT IN UNIFORM would be the hard fast rule.
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1SG Dennis Hicks
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Depends on if it is a unit event on base/off base or if you are off duty on your way home stopping for a drink with a meal. If you are at lets say a Promotion celebration one or two beers/shots are fine as long as you don't act an ass, say inappropriate things to other Soldiers/Officers or you rater. Off base on your way home with your dinner is another thing, Drinking and driving has always been a very big thing and a big NO-NO. Besides nobody should be going out for a night of bar hopping in uniform anyway. Many a career and lives have been lost to stupidity drinking in uniform. I can speak from personal experiences for another time that Drinking in or out of uniform and doing stupid stuff is not conducive to keeping your rank, getting promoted further, holding on to personal property and money as well as damaging to your careers and reputation. If you can't go about without drinking in uniform you have bigger issues to worry about.
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SGT Intelligence (S2)
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NO go.
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SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
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In one of my units, every squad had a mini fridge, stocked with crappy beer. Everyone (21 and older) had to pay for the beer, but generally, only those with Tabs drank it. Usually they would start to unwind with beer when we knew all that was left for the day was pointless sitting around for a couple of hours. This was usually accompanied by our squad playing "Bird is the Word" loud enough for the entire company to hear it, on a loop. Once or twice the TLs all got so hammered by the time we were released that they called their wives and told them they had to unexpectedly work overnight. Oh yeah, other squad leaders would raid our fridge if they were getting low on beer in their own cage.
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CPL Danny Davis
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Under the new AR 670-1, Soldiers traveling commercially on official business are authorized to wear the Army Combat Uniform, or ACU. ... Soldiers wearing their uniform may enter a liquor store to purchase package liquor, for instance. They may not, however, wear their uniform while drinking in a bar.
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