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Recently a there was a story that has a soldier that struggled to meet an Army standard. The task did prove to be extremely difficult for that soldier and they overcome the challenge. With that being said this soldier has attained national media attention for meeting the standard. That is great for the soldier but at what cost?
Does anyone know who had the best ruck time? Did they get any attention? Was there a soldier that completed their tasks without any "No-Go's" or failures? In EIB we have a thing called "True Blue." This title is held for those that complete every event their first time successfully. They are mentioned at the pinning ceremony. Are the last few feet of the ruck march all that really counts?
In other events, as a race or game, have you ever seen anyone that completed the race get more attention than the one that won or the top athlete. MAJ Chrissy Cook was the commander for the best Bradly crew in her battalion. She was the “Top Gun” so she was recognized for that and rightfully so. I can’t recall anyone else getting recognized for just passing.
Were there other factors that led to his soldier getting so much attention? Was it just a feel good story? Were there not other soldiers that did the same and did they get as much attention from the media? Was anyone really concerned about what being an Expert Field Medic really is? If you view it as a regard for getting to your objective how useful would they have been as a medic or even safely handle their weapon without flagging others?
(On a side note 3 Air Force Combat Controllers saved the lives of 38 Army Special Forces and Afghan Soldiers. One will get the Air Force Cross, being second only to the MoH. Just in case you didn’t see this in the news. It seems to not be as important.)
Does anyone know who had the best ruck time? Did they get any attention? Was there a soldier that completed their tasks without any "No-Go's" or failures? In EIB we have a thing called "True Blue." This title is held for those that complete every event their first time successfully. They are mentioned at the pinning ceremony. Are the last few feet of the ruck march all that really counts?
In other events, as a race or game, have you ever seen anyone that completed the race get more attention than the one that won or the top athlete. MAJ Chrissy Cook was the commander for the best Bradly crew in her battalion. She was the “Top Gun” so she was recognized for that and rightfully so. I can’t recall anyone else getting recognized for just passing.
Were there other factors that led to his soldier getting so much attention? Was it just a feel good story? Were there not other soldiers that did the same and did they get as much attention from the media? Was anyone really concerned about what being an Expert Field Medic really is? If you view it as a regard for getting to your objective how useful would they have been as a medic or even safely handle their weapon without flagging others?
(On a side note 3 Air Force Combat Controllers saved the lives of 38 Army Special Forces and Afghan Soldiers. One will get the Air Force Cross, being second only to the MoH. Just in case you didn’t see this in the news. It seems to not be as important.)
Success
Excellence
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Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 19
I feel that it is the media perpetuating this men vs. women stuff to further a political agenda. While I applaud the Captain for a job well done and not quitting, I don't think this was worthy of national media attention. She was a success in acheiving the EFMB, and should be commended but didn't do anything in my mind worthy of so much attention. I really hate this kind of stuff being constantly cycled in the media. CPT (Join to see) mentioned other events more newsworthy. I'm certainly not trying to take away from what the Captain did. The EFMB is extraordinarily grueling task to earn the badge , but that is exactly what she did earn the badge. That's it.
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That story resonated because it portrayed perseverance in the face of failure, will to overcome... teamates cheering her on. It was good optics. AND the EFMB is no joke. It wasn't just that ruck march, it was several days of events leading up to it.
To your point CPT (Join to see), I do not believe in celebrating mediocity. I believe in celebrating excellence. Excellence gives everyone something to aspire to.
Having said that, if I have a Soldier who has struggled to pass a standard (say APFT) and does, I make sure that it is a big deal. To the Soldier, it is. It should be to his peers as well. But most importantly, you need to celebrate success in order to foster more success. If that event had passed without anyone noticing, I can virtually guarantee the next test will be a failure.
That Veterinarian met a standard that a whole lot of people try and fail to attain. That is a big deal.
To your point CPT (Join to see), I do not believe in celebrating mediocity. I believe in celebrating excellence. Excellence gives everyone something to aspire to.
Having said that, if I have a Soldier who has struggled to pass a standard (say APFT) and does, I make sure that it is a big deal. To the Soldier, it is. It should be to his peers as well. But most importantly, you need to celebrate success in order to foster more success. If that event had passed without anyone noticing, I can virtually guarantee the next test will be a failure.
That Veterinarian met a standard that a whole lot of people try and fail to attain. That is a big deal.
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1SG (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see), would I celebrate a 180? APFT? Of course not. My point there is a bit more subtle about how to maintain momemtum and motivation on a Soldier who could have quit, but didn't.
We have a 24 news cycle. They have to fill the time. The optics were good, so it went viral. I saw that CPT interviewed on the news this morning and she was clearly a bit embarrased by all the hoopla. She in front of the whole world, was dehydrated, broken down, and falling on her face. But she got back up again and found enough in the tank to pass. That shows heart.
Now if she would've just drank some water, she would never have been on TV.
We have a 24 news cycle. They have to fill the time. The optics were good, so it went viral. I saw that CPT interviewed on the news this morning and she was clearly a bit embarrased by all the hoopla. She in front of the whole world, was dehydrated, broken down, and falling on her face. But she got back up again and found enough in the tank to pass. That shows heart.
Now if she would've just drank some water, she would never have been on TV.
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CPT (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) I agree with you. I just can't help but to think there were other motives here. Like the whole push with women in combat arms and trying to sway the public. I don't think if it was a male it would have been treated the same way.
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MAJ Matthew Arnold
No apology necessary. My comment above was meant as a light jab, I forgot the ;-) Please read my commendatory (as in commendable, not me, you) comment further down the thread.
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Commendable and motivating. Too many perfectionists and negative Nancy's judging her performance or what not as if they knew her body as their own. Regardless it's an issue. I see the good in this, not the bs.
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CPT (Join to see)
There is a lot of combat arms types questioning this. The question at hand is that they ruck is something that you do to get to an objective. It isn't the mission itself. How effective would one be if they couldn't perform when they got to the objective.
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SrA (Join to see)
Understood CPT (Join to see). I would safely assume that her occupation(probably not combat arms related) limits her to be in pristine condition to perform a 12 mile hump. Her field of work doesn't have consistent endurance events to ensure her effectiveness in combat related maneuvers. If I recall she did endure five days of other related strenuous activities before completing this event. That has to count for something.
My biggest gripe is that it is her and only herself whom knows her capabilities. I have faith that she would persevere to complete the mission if need be.
I share sentiment and a keen level of understanding when it comes to women in the military. I had a relationship with a female Marine and seen the levels of retardation she dealt with day in day out. One of the toughest Marines I knew. Women are constantly judged and discriminated in the military and the negative feedback from this video is just another example of it.
I can only imagine how many male service members struggled with similar events as this one. Hell, I've seen Marines struggle with our 15 mile humps at times. It happens. There are so many factors that could've resulted in her performance, whether if it was to help her pass or make it harder for her. We don't know anything of this woman, except that she passed. So why is it that service members are instantaneously jumping to conclusions about her abilities? Aren't we supposed to encourage one another and set the example? Why haven't any leaders addressed the inappropriate commentary?
The unwarranted commentary only increases the disparity between women and men in the military. Although I see your standpoint, the way people have been responding is egostistical. It is in no way productive.
My biggest gripe is that it is her and only herself whom knows her capabilities. I have faith that she would persevere to complete the mission if need be.
I share sentiment and a keen level of understanding when it comes to women in the military. I had a relationship with a female Marine and seen the levels of retardation she dealt with day in day out. One of the toughest Marines I knew. Women are constantly judged and discriminated in the military and the negative feedback from this video is just another example of it.
I can only imagine how many male service members struggled with similar events as this one. Hell, I've seen Marines struggle with our 15 mile humps at times. It happens. There are so many factors that could've resulted in her performance, whether if it was to help her pass or make it harder for her. We don't know anything of this woman, except that she passed. So why is it that service members are instantaneously jumping to conclusions about her abilities? Aren't we supposed to encourage one another and set the example? Why haven't any leaders addressed the inappropriate commentary?
The unwarranted commentary only increases the disparity between women and men in the military. Although I see your standpoint, the way people have been responding is egostistical. It is in no way productive.
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CPT (Join to see)
This a very sensitive topic and some are going a bit overboard. I have seen some memes on this that are a bit rough. But going back to her and the test. We have to eliminate any demographic data in this. I would also take away her MOS also. She is testing for the Expert Field Medic Badge. So regardless of her MOS she should be held to the standard. She is being held to the standard of being a Field Medic. That is what the standard that I am holding in this. In this situation the ruck is being used to measure their ability to get the objective. Getting there is just the start of the fight.
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SrA (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see)
http://www.stripes.com/news/recipients-of-expert-field-medical-badge-beat-the-averages-1.302182
I dug into the badge you were referring to and interestingly enough, found some good information. It is said that the success rate of this training is 18-20%. It really puts things into perspective being that many don't even make it halfway. By her crossing the line she completed the most enduring physical portion and is well more than halfway done with the training. The rest is a piece of cake for her given her success so far.
http://www.stripes.com/news/recipients-of-expert-field-medical-badge-beat-the-averages-1.302182
I dug into the badge you were referring to and interestingly enough, found some good information. It is said that the success rate of this training is 18-20%. It really puts things into perspective being that many don't even make it halfway. By her crossing the line she completed the most enduring physical portion and is well more than halfway done with the training. The rest is a piece of cake for her given her success so far.
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There's nothing wrong with celebrating mental toughness in achieving the standard.
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CSM (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see)
In all seriousness I think the story shined a good light on the military. That was quite a feat for a civilian who has absolutely no clue. I also think it was a great show of intestinal fortitude on her part to keep going and not quit.
I have seen Infantrymen quit within sight of the EIB foot march finish line. I saw countless ranger school students quit on numerous occasions in all phases. I watch Soldiers quit consistently during unit runs that my grandmother could hang in.
I am sure you have motivated some of your Soldiers to meet the minimal standards and possibly even praised them for passing the APFT, foot march, obstacle course, etc. Does the accomplishment justify the buzz? Probably not but, who cares?
I walked the EIB foot march and finished in 2:57, the guy who finished first ran the entire time...our EIBs look exactly the same.
In all seriousness I think the story shined a good light on the military. That was quite a feat for a civilian who has absolutely no clue. I also think it was a great show of intestinal fortitude on her part to keep going and not quit.
I have seen Infantrymen quit within sight of the EIB foot march finish line. I saw countless ranger school students quit on numerous occasions in all phases. I watch Soldiers quit consistently during unit runs that my grandmother could hang in.
I am sure you have motivated some of your Soldiers to meet the minimal standards and possibly even praised them for passing the APFT, foot march, obstacle course, etc. Does the accomplishment justify the buzz? Probably not but, who cares?
I walked the EIB foot march and finished in 2:57, the guy who finished first ran the entire time...our EIBs look exactly the same.
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CPT (Join to see)
I have no doubt that she would be proud. She did attain the coveted EFMB. I don't think anyone doubts that. As a soldier she should be proud. But it just seems like it is a but much. It is a great feel good story for the media. Is it something that warrants this much attention? She was on the tv on Fox News. This is reminds me of the putting a soldier in the spot light when there were more deserving. This is why no one knows who SGT Donald Walters is.
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CPT (Join to see) although I know there will be people that will take this as just "running against the flow" or kind of a "haters gonna hate", I do get your point completely. At the same time, and I'll try not to go too deep, maybe our expectations are too low and we get surprised too easy. But sometimes we expect too much, APFT, and even those that excel, +260, are seen as failures. As a "I will never quit" example, it was a great message. As a "I will always mantain my arms, my equipment and myself" example, it wasn't the best.
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CPT (Join to see)
What I am getting at is that a soldier took the time to prepare themselves for the ruck. They worked tirelessly to get their EFMB. Someone put in gallons of sweat for it. When they did the ruck they smoked it. They had no issues and were able to walk away and fight on. But I have no clue. But one person wasn't all that well prepared. It took everything they had. It is like getting a A for effort. If I can do a ruck in 2:30 and not break a sweat and you do it in 2:56 and just about died over as it took everything you had who should get the praise?
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) TSgt Hunter Logan We just watched the end of the march, we didn't get to see the rest of the events, or the end scores of those who participated. So we are half blinded here.
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CPT (Join to see)
TSgt Hunter Logan But you bring up a good point also. Where was her battle buddy. She was kinda left high and dry.
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Thoughts:
EIB/EFMB/Ranger/etc are a standard ABOVE the general Army standard. Anyone that meets that higher standard deserves recognition as having meet the standard regardless of if they met the higher standard. The recognition is the badge/tab.
The Standard: Meeting the standard is what is expected. Sometimes we miss the mark, sometimes we struggle, sometime we kick ass and take names. Meeting the standard should be recognized as inherently "good".
Excellence: We ALL should strive for excellence, when you strive for excellence and miss the mark, you often succeed in meeting the standard. Meeting the standard (or higher standard) and blowing it out of the water is worthy of higher praise and should be lauded as such (True Blue, Top Grad, Distinguished Grad). Meeting the standard should be recognized as inherently "better".
Underdogs/Overcoming obstacles: As a society at large, we tend to root for the underdog (see almost every movie ever made). We celebrate people falling and getting back up and pressing on.
EIB/EFMB/Ranger/etc are a standard ABOVE the general Army standard. Anyone that meets that higher standard deserves recognition as having meet the standard regardless of if they met the higher standard. The recognition is the badge/tab.
The Standard: Meeting the standard is what is expected. Sometimes we miss the mark, sometimes we struggle, sometime we kick ass and take names. Meeting the standard should be recognized as inherently "good".
Excellence: We ALL should strive for excellence, when you strive for excellence and miss the mark, you often succeed in meeting the standard. Meeting the standard (or higher standard) and blowing it out of the water is worthy of higher praise and should be lauded as such (True Blue, Top Grad, Distinguished Grad). Meeting the standard should be recognized as inherently "better".
Underdogs/Overcoming obstacles: As a society at large, we tend to root for the underdog (see almost every movie ever made). We celebrate people falling and getting back up and pressing on.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
CPT (Join to see), is that an actual standard or a standard for specific schools/qualifications that are above the base line Army standard? Put another way, are all soldiers, regardless of MOS required to complete a Ruck March? If so is that time limit 3 hours?
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CPT (Join to see)
If it is used in just about every military school than isn't it a standard. So far Ranger, EIB, EFMB, and Air Assault all require it. If it is the same for all of them isn't it the standard overall then?
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
CPT (Join to see), I would say no. It might be a common standard for advanced schools/badges but you can go an entire career and never even be offered a slot in one of those school.
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LTC J. Lee Mudd
1LT Eric Rosa-
The 3-hour/12-mile requirement is not an Army-wide standard. As mentioned, there are several schools and other training programs that have adopted it AS A STANDARD. Additionally, some units and commands have it or something close to it (4-hr/20-km) as a requirement, but it is not an Army standard.
The 3-hour/12-mile requirement is not an Army-wide standard. As mentioned, there are several schools and other training programs that have adopted it AS A STANDARD. Additionally, some units and commands have it or something close to it (4-hr/20-km) as a requirement, but it is not an Army standard.
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News in a free society can be fickle with its coverage. I'm glad for it, if we (the military) directed what received coverage it might tend toward the tyrannical-and tyrannically dull- over time.
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I don't know what Today's Army of the U.S. standards are, but I do know this. Getting an award for just doing your job and making the grade is not enough in my professional opinon. I once was an Army dependent, going from one military post to another. When I finally joined the Marine Corps, my dad, a 2 war combat veteran said this to me. The Marine Corps, Why son? I told him it was time that I grew up fast and that he should retire and let me take a shot at it. In my family everyone was in the Army. My dad retired from the Army in October, 1972. The same month I went to MCRD, San Diego, CA. To this day I'm proud of what my dad accomplished while serving in the Korean Conflict and Vietnam. He was wounded in both wars but never complained. As for myself, I think I did okay and after 21 years I soon retired. I've watched every branch of service during the last years since 9/11. Everyone of you who was tested in combat know what it takes to be that someone special. Awards or no Awards. Saving your buddy is an award itself. Life is precious. Don't waste it. Semper Fidelis J. K. Kaupe, Jr.
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I will respond to this as I was there. I had the privilege to earn my EFMB along with this Captain. Yes there were other soldiers that were recognized. A SSG who had the fastest road march time (he was in my platoon), a Captain who completed EFMB with zero "No-Go's" and another soldier who had the highest written test score. They were all awarded the Army Achievement Medal and were given coins by the BG that pinned our badges on.
What is amazing to me is how judgmental people are about this and how it is compared to other noteworthy events not reported in the news. Does anyone really think that this Captain had control over how this video went "viral" on the internet. What difference does it make? The video is about a soldier that pushed through their physical limits to meet the Army standard and was one of the 20% of candidates who earned their EFMB.
I am glad that we all put on a uniform everyday so that we can all have our own opinions and post them in the social media world as we see fit. What good does it do to draw a comparison to this soldiers efforts versus something that you feel is more noteworthy? What has anyone done to make those events more well known? Have you posted them anywhere? If this event is what the news media chose to make noteworthy shouldn't we as fellow soldiers be proud of her accomplishment?
As a leader I inspire and teach my soldiers to push through pain, and to never quit. It looks to me like this is exactly what this soldier did. It is easy to quit it takes mental and physical toughness to drive on and complete the mission.
Why is it so hard to just say job well done or congratulations? Why is there a need to compare and contrast this with other events going on in our world today?
What is amazing to me is how judgmental people are about this and how it is compared to other noteworthy events not reported in the news. Does anyone really think that this Captain had control over how this video went "viral" on the internet. What difference does it make? The video is about a soldier that pushed through their physical limits to meet the Army standard and was one of the 20% of candidates who earned their EFMB.
I am glad that we all put on a uniform everyday so that we can all have our own opinions and post them in the social media world as we see fit. What good does it do to draw a comparison to this soldiers efforts versus something that you feel is more noteworthy? What has anyone done to make those events more well known? Have you posted them anywhere? If this event is what the news media chose to make noteworthy shouldn't we as fellow soldiers be proud of her accomplishment?
As a leader I inspire and teach my soldiers to push through pain, and to never quit. It looks to me like this is exactly what this soldier did. It is easy to quit it takes mental and physical toughness to drive on and complete the mission.
Why is it so hard to just say job well done or congratulations? Why is there a need to compare and contrast this with other events going on in our world today?
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