Experience vs Work Ethic: Which one is more important in an E-4 and below?

LTC John Shaw , I agree with you completely. Unlike in the surface fleet, on Subs it's often the most qualified or proficient who holds a leadership position. The higher your rank, the more you are expected to know. When someone of a higher rank can't cut it, a junior is put in charge. It's mission first, once you're a civilian you'll have time to care about who's feathers get ruffled.

SSG Pete Oneill - very well said! Im awaiting a virtual board now theyve rescheduled it three times of course they say they never scheduled one yet I have the letters requiring appearance daye and time but they never did that?? Aeeeemaybe it was one of those emails from clintons other half hahaha

SPC Christopher Salustro - brother be cool and chill on your MEB they watch you to see if you can do more than stated! Having medical and mental issues and gone theough my MEB years ago. I jnderstand physically some days your pain is decreased and you can enjoy things and these days tho rare will be hawkeyed more than the majority if the days your down and out! Many guys at Ft Carson USA meddac hold where i was at were called fakers, users, and virtually kicked out called liars because they had these rare few days they could go play at a park or fish or whatever that they notmally were in too much oain to do so watch your six, and jsut lay low until your out! They save money by rejecting a medical discharge hate to say it but its true!

SSG Pete Oneill - thanks ill check that out for my old broken down but and oass it to my retired brothers as well! Nice jnfo

SSG Pete Oneill - just down loaded the apple app thanks SSG Pete looks hard core

CSM Uhlig: this is the second post in about 10 minutes where I've agreed with something you said. I swear I'm not trying to kiss up (I got out 20 years ago!). but while I agree, I'm afraid, looking back, that's the reason there was often a problem was that we junior enlisted guys sometimes use the phrase "time in grade" and the word "experience" synonymously. I know now they are not the same. Experience, where you grow as a soldier and a leader due to challenging missions and requested added responsibilities is not the same thing as time-in-grade w a troop who's "just marking time."

No disrespect intended, L.T., but how do we junior enlisted troops PROVE what we can do right now or even that we deserve a chance to attempt this new level of responsibility? I would say by an ever-increasing level of responsibility: experience. If you want to know that I'll probably suceed at a new task, look at my experience: how I've handled things in the past.

SPC(P) Mark Newman - No disrespect taken but if you were successful 10 years ago that doesn't mean you will be successful today. Experience is great but you have to be willing to strive for success in everything you currently do and not just bring up what you have done.

All other things equal you pick experience. Rank <> experience, but you have to respect the chain of command.

[Note that I am not saying you should ever allow the mission to fail in order to grow leaders!] In garrison, where people don't get killed by someone's bad decision making, you should put the senior man in charge and give him all the guidance and tools he needs to succeed at the tasks he is given. If he can't handle the responsibilities that go along with the job, you need to get him out of that job so that someone more qualified can move up into it.

It's painful having to fire someone, but at times it is necessary. Hopefully we have gotten away from having zero defect mentality. ZDM is responsible for promoting leaders who are afraid to make decisions for fear of making waves that might have repercussions on their career. < THAT! is an innovation stifler. It's poor leadership at the top when folks who never did anything right are promoted simply because they never did anything wrong. (I'd much rather have someone with initiative work for me than someone afraid to make a mistake.)

Honest mistakes may sometimes warrant removal from a billet, but they should not be career enders. People tend to learn the most from their mistakes and for some, it's part of the growing process. Now with that said, you have to give people all the tools you can to help them succeed and if they don't, you have to allow them to experience the consequence of failure. [Personally, I'd much rather learn from the mistakes of others and avoid repeating them!] Some people find new motivation to succeed and others simply find their way out the door. In order for the best and brightest to succeed, some have to fail to make room for them. It's part of life.

SPC Newman:

Let me encourage you!
In addressing your question...You prove it through the following actions....
Perform every task like you were getting paid a million dollars for it. Be the best you...you can be!
Develop your goals for short & long term success. 1 Yr, 5 Yr, 10 Yr. There is something powerful about writing them down....I have some stories.
Seek Opportunities that exhibit your value, things you like to do and that your good at. Experiences/Jobs that interest you.
Seek opportunities from your leadership on how you can help.
Ask your leadership, career counselors, and veterans what education, training, experience will best help you in achieving your goals.

If your goal is to be a SGT...Determine when your next opportunity is to go to WLC. If you've had that....ask what's next. Plan out your training/education...Time flies....and it gets away from all of us. If your staying in....be the best soldier you can be!.....I will salute you for it! If you decide to be the President....make a plan to get there. The key is to make the plan.
Be determined, be resolute...Plan, Execute....be a man of your word, if you say..."I will do this".....do it in the time frame you said....be honest, full of character and integrity....in the end that's all you will have.

Develop your skills....specifically.....problem solving skills....tactical skills.....then strategic skills....for whatever job you want.....skills are developed as a result of experience.

Document your experience, yes regardless of what others say your assumption on experience is valid....also considered are education, certifications and training.

If you are getting out of the service....you will need a resume....to document all of that experience you gained....regardless of the length of its term. On the outside it is worth more than you know. Human Resources will determine your viability for a job based on that experience. The assumption is that past experience demonstrates how a person will perform/act/present/execute/lead. Experience is what forms a man into what he becomes....so make the best of every one.

Get/retain a lifelong attitude of a positive mental attitude, with humility, show gratitude, kindness, compassion, love much, pray often and learn - learn until you know everything....your life will pass before you have accomplished it. Decide what learning is important. However in the learning, know what you need on the outside to get and retain a job. Seek out career counselors....seek the information from those that are on this site....with experience. Many of which enjoy helping young men like yourself achieve their goals. Ask questions of leaders, counselors, veterans, veteran groups, associations of interest, network within the service, network in the civilian sector. Learn, be, know, do and lead my brother.....it will serve you well....as it has for me.

I can tell you from....."experience" years of it.....prepare, learn, show your desire for more responsibility....you will get it....be careful what you hope for. Be the best at whatever you choose! Ask questions of leaders, counselors, veterans, veteran groups, associations of interest, network within the service, network in the civilian sector. Learn, be, know, do and lead my brother.....it will serve you well....as it has for me.

Should you need help....ask....we are a brotherhood....those willing to shed their own blood for each other for the cause of liberty and freedom.

Be Encouraged!

CPT Toby Forbes - Everyone had diferencea point of view and for mine we had a lot people in the military that just collecting pay checks, by being in the right place at the right time, by doing what they told to do but they do not had initiative at all. What good are this people doing to the Army.

Sadly enough, ma'am, in my experience, you're mostly right. I love how senior leadership talks about stepping up to the plate, taking initiative, ... But end of the day, you can work your butt of, the Slackers end up with the same pay check for less than a quarter of the effort. Most units have 3 or 4 guys that have proven to be dependable and need little to no guidance, so they're it for literally everything. And the rest of the unit figures this out real quick, so they're nowhere to be seen to lift the load of those few. Can you spell burn out in no time. And believe me, those few don't have shit to show for the hard work. Because that's the climate that's being fostered.

These people are doing a job that needs done by somebody. That's what good they are doing for the Army. It may be a limited amount of good, but, these individuals are fulfilling a role.

Awesome advice thank you.