Posted on Aug 8, 2015
Experience vs Work Ethic: Which one is more important in an E-4 and below?
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A strong worker or someone who has held the rank longer? Say you have a team leader slot open and you have a SPC who has showed no real leadership or even in depth job knowledge vs a PFC who has stepped up to not only lead their peers but seek knowledge from the supporting jobs surrounding their job to further themselves in their mission and ability to troubleshoot problems that arise to at least complete the current mission. Do you as a leader stay with rank and give the team leader to the almost unless unwilling to learn SPC or the overly high speed PFC who has proven themselves time and time again?
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 75
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My opinion and my military experiences are two different things ... IMHO, promotions should be given to those who work hard, have a good work ethic, and strive to become better than they curently are ... Unfortunately though, my experience has shown that, in the real world, it is not about what you know, but who you know. If you are buddy buddy with the squad leader or platoon sgt, then you will more than likely get promoted. If you are not, then you will likely get passed up for anything but details.
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I would say that work ethic is the most important for E-4 and below. That work ethic will produce the Experience. It did for me. I entered the ARMY as an E-1 but was a SPEC-5 before the fifth year was up. SSG would have been a snap but I had a great electronics career waiting for me with at least double the money and more perks.I worked as an engineer for 5 months when the VP; Sales came back to my test bench and told me he was posting a job for the company's' first Inside Sales to be the liaison with the 5 Regional Managers and the whole factory in Huntsville, AL.Worked 20 months and got promoted to the first ever District Manager for the Rocky Mountains states. Only 30 years old and making decent six figure incomes. It only got better from there! Work Ethic got me there!
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Can a subordinate have a senior report to him? Same question, different variable, can a Sgt have a 2nd Lt report to him? I think not. If said PFC is so great, why not meritoriously promote him.
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SPC James Burkett II
1stSgt (Join to see)
I would love to see the PFC promoted but us being an FSC attached to a combat arms unit we don't see to many waivers for tis
I would love to see the PFC promoted but us being an FSC attached to a combat arms unit we don't see to many waivers for tis
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1stSgt (Join to see)
I am reading these comments and kind of laughing to myself at active duty officer and enlisted stating put the PFC in charge. I can speak about the Marine Corps only, but a Cpl is never put under the guidance of a LCpl. Any Marines who would state other wise I would love to get your experience off line. In my 23 years 18 of which where in the infantry, I never saw such a thing. I did see the Cpl be shifted under another Cpl and the LCpl get the team, but the Cpl never reported to a LCpl. The only time I ever saw anything even remotly close was DI School, where the staff was SSgt's and the Student was a GySgt, but even then respect for rank was used. I once had a CDI SSgt who thought he could talk to a New Hat who was a Gy as though he was a piece of shit. Newly promoted SSgt found out the real deal shortly there after. I bring up my example of a dipshit 2nd Lt being supervised by a Sgt again. The military is not a business, so business experience has no bearing in this conversation.
To further the discussion, why are units promoting assbags that conduct the supervision of a Cpl/Spc/PO3? We are not talking rocket science here. If SNM sucks so bad that he can lead a fireteam to an all you can eat buffet, why is he/she being promoted. This baffles me. I would have nonreced him. No one wants to be told they suck, but the military is move up or move out, and with the budget cuts it will get only worse.
BTW, what is job of Spc anyway? More than a PFC but not quite a Cpl?
To further the discussion, why are units promoting assbags that conduct the supervision of a Cpl/Spc/PO3? We are not talking rocket science here. If SNM sucks so bad that he can lead a fireteam to an all you can eat buffet, why is he/she being promoted. This baffles me. I would have nonreced him. No one wants to be told they suck, but the military is move up or move out, and with the budget cuts it will get only worse.
BTW, what is job of Spc anyway? More than a PFC but not quite a Cpl?
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This is a no brainer. The SPC who has shown no real leadership would not even get a consideration. Those who feel rank entitles them to be a leader obviously don't understand the true meaning of leadership.
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I will take the one with the work ethic every time. When a good soldier has the work ethic then comes the experience. When a good soldier has these qualities then promotions come easier and more quickly. Soon that SPC that once out-ranked him is now a subordinate to him/her. My leaders taught me and is still true today, quality over quantity every time. When your short-handed day in and day out you need people you can count on to get the job done right the first time and with little or no supervision. Get the job done and move on to the next. I may be getting old but I still have not forgotten how most of my soldiers were promoted ahead of others!!
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Work Ethic is definitely more important. Motivation will lead to experience but not the other way.
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I always gave it to the willing while we were in combat, but back home I found mentors for both, but had the NCO's handle that because that is NCO business.
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I d take work ethic over experience...simply because if you got the work ethic it shows you are willing to put in the time and effort to do the right thing and learn the right way. You already are going to have the stereotype of being a shammer simply because of the rank. E-4 mafia will not be strong with you.
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