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Given that the Expert Infantry Badge (EIB) and Expert Field Medical Badge (EFMB) are based on technical/tactical proficiency, should non-qualifying MOS-holders be eligible if they successfully compete a qualifying course?
Example: a 42A can complete EIB testing, however, per AR 600-8-22, is ineligible to be awarded or wear the badge.
Should this be changed?
Note! I am referring to the Expert- badge family ONLY; I am not referring to Combat Infantryman Badges, or Blue Discs/Cords.
Example: a 42A can complete EIB testing, however, per AR 600-8-22, is ineligible to be awarded or wear the badge.
Should this be changed?
Note! I am referring to the Expert- badge family ONLY; I am not referring to Combat Infantryman Badges, or Blue Discs/Cords.
Posted in these groups: 
Badges
Combat Arms
Expert Infantryman Badge (EIB)
Expert Field Medical Badge EFMB
Badges Combat Arms Expert Infantryman Badge (EIB) Expert Field Medical Badge EFMB
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 99
106
106
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NO! We all (vast majiority anyway) have talked about getting tto tradtional Army Valures and Traditions. It seems today's Soldiers really have developed an "Army of One" mentality and atttitude, specifically for themselves and not "One Army".
These badges were designed specifically for Soldiers that hold those MOSs carry the burden of the tasks required by the MOS and units everyday, in garrison and in the field.
Now if a Soldier from a non-infantry or medical MOS goes thru the training and passes the test...super, great, outstanding performance and very worthy of recognition...an impact AAM. I know some units where this achievement would get them an ARCOM (not saying I agree withthat, but it would happen); Accomplishment would definitely merit an outstanding remark on annual evaulation.....but to be awarded either badges, absolutely NO! If you want the badge that bad, reclassify into the MOS, do the job full time!
Once again as I read many of the comments of those supporting, I see a lot of, "I don't see why not," I think they should be able to". Here's my "I think"....Let's get back to accepting the rules and regulations in place, lets get back to adopting, accepting and supporting Army traditions. And again, if you really want the right to wear the badges, all you have to do is re-enlist for or attempt to re-classify into one of the MOSs that are authorized to be awarded and wear. Being assigned to an Infantry Unit as a commo, clerk, supply, truck driver, etc does not make you an infantryman! You do not belong to the traditions and values that were put into place when those badges were created, unless you are an infantryman or medic.
If you wanna wear the badges, don't be a wanna be infantryman or medic! DO it full time!
These badges were designed specifically for Soldiers that hold those MOSs carry the burden of the tasks required by the MOS and units everyday, in garrison and in the field.
Now if a Soldier from a non-infantry or medical MOS goes thru the training and passes the test...super, great, outstanding performance and very worthy of recognition...an impact AAM. I know some units where this achievement would get them an ARCOM (not saying I agree withthat, but it would happen); Accomplishment would definitely merit an outstanding remark on annual evaulation.....but to be awarded either badges, absolutely NO! If you want the badge that bad, reclassify into the MOS, do the job full time!
Once again as I read many of the comments of those supporting, I see a lot of, "I don't see why not," I think they should be able to". Here's my "I think"....Let's get back to accepting the rules and regulations in place, lets get back to adopting, accepting and supporting Army traditions. And again, if you really want the right to wear the badges, all you have to do is re-enlist for or attempt to re-classify into one of the MOSs that are authorized to be awarded and wear. Being assigned to an Infantry Unit as a commo, clerk, supply, truck driver, etc does not make you an infantryman! You do not belong to the traditions and values that were put into place when those badges were created, unless you are an infantryman or medic.
If you wanna wear the badges, don't be a wanna be infantryman or medic! DO it full time!
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TSgt David Baillargeon
I agree Top, I was a young 13F, and passed EIB when I was attached to the 1-506th at Greaves (DMZ) way back when. At the time I thought it was messed up that a FIST team couldn't wear it, because we did almost the same job, but over time I learned to understand the traditions. I still teased the 11 bang bangs though!
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SPC (Join to see)
I spent 4 years trying to reclass into 11B. I tried to reenlist into 11B. I tried to leave and join the National Guard for 11B. But my career field is under strength and they won't let me go. I seen listed to see if I could find another way out of this MOS, but its not panning out so far. I agree that the expert badges shouldn't be opened up, but we have to find a way for Soldiers who want to do those jobs to have that opportunity.
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SPC Chris Ison
I guess it depends on your perspective. I see a LOT of infantry guys who are like if you wanted to be infantry you should have been infantry; But SOMEONE HAS TO DO TO THE BORING SHIT. The Navy and Marine corps has a "tradition" it is called fleet marine force sailor. it works like this:
If i am say an HM, or an RP (religious program specialist), or any other rate, and i am attached to marine unit, i can choose to take the marine corps pt test, AND meet the height, weight, and grooming standards of the Marine Corps i can wear the USMC uniform. If i also choose to do a course, which is the equivalent to the EIB, i get special warfare badge called the FMF (fleet marine force) badge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleet_Marine_Force_insignia
This shows that i am an EXCEPTIONAL sailor, not a "pog". So why shouldn't a commo guy get to wear the EIB, if he can pass the test. There are plenty of panty waist Infantryman that never put in that effort right?
The idea of exclusivity is a detriment to esprit de corps.
What was the line in that movie?
"You don't win the medal, it is not a contest."
I think most infantryman don't like being shown up by non infantryman and that is why they cling to their "traditions" which, FYI, do not work the way you think they work. One did not need to be "school trained" in WWII to get the CIB, one just had to be "an infantry soldier". The MOS of "infantry" was under gunnery and gunnery control, it included tanks, and was 745 rifleman, machine gunner had a separate mos code 604 for light, 605 for heavy. The idea of an "infantry" MOS, came after WWII.
The history of the CIB even explains it:
After the United States' declaration of war in 1941, the War Department had difficulty recruiting infantry branch volunteers, namely due to the fact that "of all Soldiers, it was recognized that the infantryman continuously operated under the worst conditions and performed a mission that was not assigned to any other Soldier or unit ... the infantry, a small portion of the total Armed Forces, was suffering the most casualties while receiving the least public recognition."
On 27 October 1943, the War Department formally established the Combat Infantryman Badge (CIB) and the Expert Infantryman Badge (EIB) awards in Section I, War Department Circular 269 (27 October 1943):
The present war has demonstrated the importance of highly-proficient, tough, hard, and aggressive infantry, which can be obtained only by developing a high degree of individual all-around proficiency on the part of every infantryman. As a means of attaining the high standards desired and to foster esprit de corps in infantry units; the Expert Infantryman and the Combat Infantryman badges are established for infantry personnel.
https://www.cibassoc.com/about/combat-infantryman-badge/
The real issue, is that the Army, especially the national guard, took non infantry soldiers, and turned them into infantry as an administrative act, we bore the brunt of the asymetrical warfare in the GWOT, and now the "regular" infantry is crying that pogs could do their job, but shouldn't; be recognized for it, which violates THE VERY SPIRIT OF THE AWARD. and i quote again:
"of all Soldiers, it was recognized that the infantryman continuously operated under the worst conditions and performed a mission that was not assigned to any other Soldier or unit ... the infantry, a small portion of the total Armed Forces, was suffering the most casualties while receiving the least public recognition."
My TANK UNIT 1-185 armored, deployed as "motorized infantry 11X," and we all deserved the CIB, and instead we get the CAB. The army said we were good enough to be infantry and do the job, and die like an infantryman, but we are not good enough for that badge? So much for every soldier a rifleman, huh?
If i am say an HM, or an RP (religious program specialist), or any other rate, and i am attached to marine unit, i can choose to take the marine corps pt test, AND meet the height, weight, and grooming standards of the Marine Corps i can wear the USMC uniform. If i also choose to do a course, which is the equivalent to the EIB, i get special warfare badge called the FMF (fleet marine force) badge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleet_Marine_Force_insignia
This shows that i am an EXCEPTIONAL sailor, not a "pog". So why shouldn't a commo guy get to wear the EIB, if he can pass the test. There are plenty of panty waist Infantryman that never put in that effort right?
The idea of exclusivity is a detriment to esprit de corps.
What was the line in that movie?
"You don't win the medal, it is not a contest."
I think most infantryman don't like being shown up by non infantryman and that is why they cling to their "traditions" which, FYI, do not work the way you think they work. One did not need to be "school trained" in WWII to get the CIB, one just had to be "an infantry soldier". The MOS of "infantry" was under gunnery and gunnery control, it included tanks, and was 745 rifleman, machine gunner had a separate mos code 604 for light, 605 for heavy. The idea of an "infantry" MOS, came after WWII.
The history of the CIB even explains it:
After the United States' declaration of war in 1941, the War Department had difficulty recruiting infantry branch volunteers, namely due to the fact that "of all Soldiers, it was recognized that the infantryman continuously operated under the worst conditions and performed a mission that was not assigned to any other Soldier or unit ... the infantry, a small portion of the total Armed Forces, was suffering the most casualties while receiving the least public recognition."
On 27 October 1943, the War Department formally established the Combat Infantryman Badge (CIB) and the Expert Infantryman Badge (EIB) awards in Section I, War Department Circular 269 (27 October 1943):
The present war has demonstrated the importance of highly-proficient, tough, hard, and aggressive infantry, which can be obtained only by developing a high degree of individual all-around proficiency on the part of every infantryman. As a means of attaining the high standards desired and to foster esprit de corps in infantry units; the Expert Infantryman and the Combat Infantryman badges are established for infantry personnel.
https://www.cibassoc.com/about/combat-infantryman-badge/
The real issue, is that the Army, especially the national guard, took non infantry soldiers, and turned them into infantry as an administrative act, we bore the brunt of the asymetrical warfare in the GWOT, and now the "regular" infantry is crying that pogs could do their job, but shouldn't; be recognized for it, which violates THE VERY SPIRIT OF THE AWARD. and i quote again:
"of all Soldiers, it was recognized that the infantryman continuously operated under the worst conditions and performed a mission that was not assigned to any other Soldier or unit ... the infantry, a small portion of the total Armed Forces, was suffering the most casualties while receiving the least public recognition."
My TANK UNIT 1-185 armored, deployed as "motorized infantry 11X," and we all deserved the CIB, and instead we get the CAB. The army said we were good enough to be infantry and do the job, and die like an infantryman, but we are not good enough for that badge? So much for every soldier a rifleman, huh?
Fleet Marine Force insignia - Wikipedia
The Fleet Marine Force Warfare Insignia, also known as the Fleet Marine Force badge or FMF pin, are three military badges of the United States Navy which are issued to those U.S. Navy officers and sailors who are trained and qualified to perform duties in support of the United States Marine Corps. There are currently three classes of the Fleet Marine Force pin, being that of enlisted, officer, and chaplain.
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SGT (Join to see)
Super late to this discussion but I am looking for answers. I had a board today which I was wearing my EIB (Earned it with the 173rd in 2018 while I was an 11B) I reclassed last year to a 68C. Today CSM asked me what are the regulations to wear my EIB while now being in a medical unit. I looked in AR 600-8-22 and AR 670-1 no luck. Any guidance?
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I do not believe that non-infantry should be eligible to earn/wear the EIB. The EIB is not a skill badge like Airborne or Air Assault. It shows that an Infantryman has mastered proficiency in his MOS. It is not a course or a schoolhouse that once completed awards a badge or skill-identifier. It is an infantry-only award. Simply passing the exam does not entitle one to all of the benefits of being an Infantryman. Being an Infantryman is a job and a way of life. Only by accepting that way of life and its hardships should one be eligible for all of its benefits; EIB, CIB, blue cord and disks.
I am a Forward Observer (13F) in a light-infantry BN. I am required to do almost everything an Infantryman is required to do. However, I am not an Infantryman. I have my own job and my branch (FA) has its own set of traditions. When my BN tests for the EIB I participate alongside my infantry brothers, but regardless of whether I successfully complete the exam, I cannot earn/wear the EIB.
I am a Forward Observer (13F) in a light-infantry BN. I am required to do almost everything an Infantryman is required to do. However, I am not an Infantryman. I have my own job and my branch (FA) has its own set of traditions. When my BN tests for the EIB I participate alongside my infantry brothers, but regardless of whether I successfully complete the exam, I cannot earn/wear the EIB.
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1SG Henry Minor
As a 12B I went throug the training.I enjoyed the course and learned a lot.I cant wear the E.I.B. but did a cerficate of completion of training.This is more than I expected.
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CPL Cord Nipper
SPC (Join to see) And that's the way it should be.
Give them the proper credit for completing the course but no badge.
Give them the proper credit for completing the course but no badge.
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38
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For all of you that think ANYONE should be able to wear the EIB, that would diminish it's meaning just as awarding anyone the CIB. That is why they came out with the CAB. Also not everyone not even infantry can wear the Expert Medics Badge, do you want everyone to be eligible to wear it also? Maybe if enough people suggested it the army will come out with an Expert Soldiers Badge for non infantrymen or medics.
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CSM Charles Hayden
SFC Boots Attaway The 40th ID, CAARNG, Division Surgeon, COL - Dr Miller, wore both the CIB and CMB. He was quite a fellow!
If memory serves me correctly, COL Miller was General Westmorland’s personal physician at one time.
If memory serves me correctly, COL Miller was General Westmorland’s personal physician at one time.
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SSG (Join to see)
I think they should be allowed to earn it. If they can complete the testing. Get the points for earning it, but wear should only be limited to 11 series
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