Posted on Dec 5, 2013
Fact or Fiction? If outside, under cover, you are not required to wear head gear.
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I get to hear a lot of interesting questions and stories.<div><br></div><div>Figured I would start postingg some "common" stuff that either I heard growing up or Soldiers have told me that they have heard.</div><div><br></div><div>Want to see what folks have been told, what they believe and what is actually right.</div>
Army
Uniforms
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 33
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If outside and the area is marked no head gear then no head gear, but if it isn't marked you wear head gear Or be prepared to be put on CSM's grass cutting detail! LOL So i have been told.
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CPT (Join to see)
Curious... I see a lot of soldiers without their patrol caps on foreign ruck marches, such as the Norwegian Foot March and 4 Days March. Are they out of regs?
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The phrase "under cover" literally does not occur in AR 670-1 (I've just cntrl+F'ed it like 10 times to be sure). What it DOES say, is that it will be worn outdoors. So I guess the only lattitude a barracks lawyer could find is "how do you define outdoors?", but I don't see that flying far...
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SFC (Join to see)
I know it is SFC Willis, but I also posted that comment a year ago, when it was the most recent.
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1SG(P) Dean Mcbride (MPER) (SPHR)
#3... If the evening social event is held outside - you are not required to wear headgear.
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If we're not surrounded by 3 walls, we are outdoors and should wear headgear. But if I'm the only one wearing headgear, I take mine off for uniformity's sake.
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see), thank you for replying, but I don't get your point. CSM Maynard's question was regarding, "common stuff that ... Soldiers have told me that they have heard. Want to see what folks have been told." His question examines the fiction many of us have been handed through the years via word of mouth, and this was my contribution.
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This is rather ok to ask.
Only one thing.
I want go back in time, back to June-July 1976
when polaroid was used to take pictures.
The location: Ft. Sill Oklahoma
Activity: Arrived from a 10 mile road march, firing range.
Notes: Basic Training.
Observe: Look at every solider around me, I'm the one with the M-16
What do you see? Look at every ones head, now our drill SGTS were all aware and were around. In this were cleaning our TA-50 and weapons out side.
Army then VS the question and AR stated Army Now.
Interesting you think?
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SSG Laureano Pabon
I don't want anyone to get confused Army regulations existed and ever one must wear hats out side.
This time it was ok because for some odd reason it just happened and it was ok with the Drill Sgts.
This time it was ok because for some odd reason it just happened and it was ok with the Drill Sgts.
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SGT (Join to see)
Yes, very. Were the DSs maybe more lenient because you guys only had ACHs and were doing a detail? These days we have soft/patrol caps that are comfortable and easy to work in.
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SSG Laureano Pabon
SPC Thundercloud, your reply is 100% correct. This is what post nam looked like. Our PT. uniforms, was those same pants, combat boots and tea shirt with no hats. No running shoes, or shorts. the movie PVT Benjamin had nothing on us, we slept in 3 story tall modern builds, each room was designed with brand new wall lockers, beds (not bunk beds) a writing table with lap, private bathroom with shower and bath combination, each member had his own private window. each floor had 4 rooms with a day room carpet floor. The building behind me was the Drill SGTS office.
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CSM Mike Maynard
SGT Nieves, it is up to the leadership to follow the regulation. If there are options in the regulation like the ones SGT O'Neill state, then yes, leadership has the option to choose one of those for the stated reasons.
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When I worked at the NCOA as an SGL, the Commandant and Deputy told us young uns' that since there is a roof over our head we didn't have to wear our head gear. This was brought up on a "fill day" when sponsors were correcting the NCOA cadre for not wearing their headgear in the breezeway area. Honestly though, I never looked it up. I figured If the Commandant and Deputy said that was the rule, it was good enough for me. Then again, there are "no head gear/salute" areas in some Unit footprints. This may be one of those Command discretion things.
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CSM Mike Maynard
SFC Watson - I too have heard that if there is a roof over your head or if your under "cover" you don't have to and I believed that for many, many years until I actually read the AR from cover to cover. Amazing what you'll find when you read instead of google or Ctrl-F a Reg.
Of course No Hat / No Salute areas are exempt from this discussion as they are special cases (personal note - I don't like no hat / no salute areas - got rid of all the ones around here).
But, "roof over your head" does not qualify to remove your headgear based on regulation.
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I'm not up-to-date on the Army reg's - but I remember in the Marines if you were outside you had to be wearing your 'cover' - the only time you wore it indoors was if you were 'under arms' (Armed). As to the Air Force, if you were under cover outside it seemed to be allowed. I know that a lot of the personnel I came into contact with would keep their head gear on when they came indoors; that was a violation. I kept my beret on indoors when I was on-duty and 'armed'. So, for a majority of my career with the Air Force I had my beret on - not to often was I un-armed.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
We also "generally" remove our covers when eating, regardless of the presence of a ceiling.
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I have heard that you may remove your cover if you are surrounded on three sides by walls and you have cover overhead...
additionally, there are designated "no hat", "no salute", etc. zones where headgear is not required (e.g. the flight line).
I have no regulation or policy letter to back that up, though...
additionally, there are designated "no hat", "no salute", etc. zones where headgear is not required (e.g. the flight line).
I have no regulation or policy letter to back that up, though...
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SGT (Join to see)
http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r670_1.pdf section 1-10 k.
k. Soldiers will wear headgear with the Army uniform, except under the following circumstances:
(1) Headgear is not required if it would interfere with the safe operation of military vehicles. The wear of military
headgear is not required while in or on a privately owned vehicle (to include a motorcycle, bicycle, or convertible
automobile), a commercial vehicle, or on public conveyance (such as a subway, train, plane, or bus).
(2) Soldiers will not wear headgear indoors unless under arms in an official capacity, or when directed by the
commander, such as for indoor ceremonial activities.
(3) Male and female soldiers are not required to wear headgear to evening social events (after Retreat) when
wearing the Army blue and white uniforms, the enlisted green dress uniform, the Army green maternity dress uniform
(females only), or the mess and evening mess uniforms.
(4) Soldiers will carry their headgear, when it is not worn, in their hands while wearing service, dress, and mess
uniforms. Soldiers are authorized storage of the headgear, when it is not worn, in the BDU cargo pockets. Soldiers
must fold the headgear neatly so as not to present a bulky appearance. Soldiers will not attach headgear to the uniform
or hang it from the belt.
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CSM Mike Maynard
SGT O'Neill - Roger! Sounds like you have heard the same things I and others have heard, but have never seen anything in writing.
Interesting how we're so willing to follow/trust our leaders growing up without verifying.
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CSM,
I just came across this as I was researching the question. There is a building here with an open courtyard, surrounded by a covered walkway. I was corrected by a friend of mine that I should have my headgear on, as the courtyard is considered "outdoors". I put my headgear on and wanted to come read the regs in detail to get an understanding myself, as I always believed that a roof over your head constituted "cover", and headgear wasn't necessary. Now I know that the only definition that matters is indoors vs outdoors in the regulation, and a courtyard in its entirety is considered outdoors and headgear must be worn. Good to see this discussion on here, even if I'm a year late to the party.
I just came across this as I was researching the question. There is a building here with an open courtyard, surrounded by a covered walkway. I was corrected by a friend of mine that I should have my headgear on, as the courtyard is considered "outdoors". I put my headgear on and wanted to come read the regs in detail to get an understanding myself, as I always believed that a roof over your head constituted "cover", and headgear wasn't necessary. Now I know that the only definition that matters is indoors vs outdoors in the regulation, and a courtyard in its entirety is considered outdoors and headgear must be worn. Good to see this discussion on here, even if I'm a year late to the party.
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