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This is not a debate on our beliefs, rather a discussion. A lot of service members have found their religions or, like me, never saw the need for it. What was the moment in your life that you either became religious or figured out that you did not want/need to be religious. How has your religion shaped you as a person, likewise, how has your lack of religion shaped who you are?
Atheism
Religion
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 22
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I don't usually participate in religious discussions but, found this one interesting. I believe I have faith however, I am not a big fan of religion. I was raised Catholic and only practiced seriously for a few years pre-teen.
The day I lost "faith" in religion was in 2006 while deployed to Iraq. I read the Quran and was shocked at how closely it followed or parts of it mirrored/mentioned the bible or people in the bible. I started reading about religion, the crusades, the inquisition, etc. etc. I came to the conclusion that religion was found/prcaticed for man to control the masses and gain power for the highest ranking clergy.
There is a lot more to the story but, I don't want to offend anyone or start a crazy thread. I respect peoples right to practice whatever religion they want. I have faith but it's my own faith.
The day I lost "faith" in religion was in 2006 while deployed to Iraq. I read the Quran and was shocked at how closely it followed or parts of it mirrored/mentioned the bible or people in the bible. I started reading about religion, the crusades, the inquisition, etc. etc. I came to the conclusion that religion was found/prcaticed for man to control the masses and gain power for the highest ranking clergy.
There is a lot more to the story but, I don't want to offend anyone or start a crazy thread. I respect peoples right to practice whatever religion they want. I have faith but it's my own faith.
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SGT (Join to see)
SGM, this is the thought process that played a part in me losing faith all together a few years ago. The realization that organized religion has the power to control people, and is regularly used to do so, really started to bother me. It's interesting to me to hear from someone who has faith and at the same time feels this way about religion.
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CSM (Join to see)
CPT Carrie P. I hear what you're saying. Offend was probably the wrong word to use. I just don't have the time or energy to get into a huge discussion with some zealot with a closed mind....ya know what I'm saying?
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CSM (Join to see)
CPT Carrie P. - I know you were but, I am confused now. Whatever, it is probably because I am a mouth breather and fail miserably at communicating...or my sarcasm is so advanced I don't even realize I'm being sarcastic. Or I'm just an idiot.
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MSG Brad Sand
CSM (Join to see)
In reality, every person's faith is there own faith...regardless of religion. Too often, people...usually tied to a religion...want to tie faith to religion. To me, they have overlap but are two separate and distinct things.
In reality, every person's faith is there own faith...regardless of religion. Too often, people...usually tied to a religion...want to tie faith to religion. To me, they have overlap but are two separate and distinct things.
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i had a girlfriend in high school who came from a strict religious household. she was kinda losing her religion but her family was not. long story short i was told i would need to start attending services and bible studies with them to continue seeing her. i did for a while but her father noticed it had no affect on me and i wasn't soaking it in, so to speak. so that ended us. i saw the real negative side to religion because of my bad experience. at that point i had become a bad atheist, an asshole of one. i was rude on the subject, couldn't be told otherwise and i hate that i ever acted like that. now im much more respectful about it all. it took me years to come to terms with the fact that was an isolated incident of a bad experience. but also i had never been involved with religion before then. i learned afterwards the definition of atheism and what it means to be agnostic and many other non religious terms and i found comfort in that .
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I'm not religious, but I am spiritual. I know God exists, but I've learned more about him in the woods or exploring the Earth than I ever did in church. I don't trust the bible, its been blatantly altered for political benefit and it has been used for hundreds of years along with religion as a means of control.
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Cpl Jon Westbrook
Well for one, The Pro-Life movement. In 1977 as a response to Rowe vs Wade(1973) The New American Standard Bible(First published in 1971) was altered by pro life Evangelicals.
Exodus 21:22-25 (1971 original release)
“And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is not further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.”
Exodus 21:22-25 (1977 re-release)
“If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.”
This is just one example of people taking the bible literally until they find something they don't like and they change it. And if you don't believe me Google it. It happens all the time. There are currently 104 different versions of the bible, all reworded to fit the ideas of whatever group they were commissioned by.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_Bible_translations
Exodus 21:22-25 (1971 original release)
“And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is not further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.”
Exodus 21:22-25 (1977 re-release)
“If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.”
This is just one example of people taking the bible literally until they find something they don't like and they change it. And if you don't believe me Google it. It happens all the time. There are currently 104 different versions of the bible, all reworded to fit the ideas of whatever group they were commissioned by.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_Bible_translations
List of English Bible translations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Bible has been translated into many languages from the biblical languages of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. The Latin Vulgate translation was dominant in Western Christianity through the Middle Ages. Since then, the Bible has been translated into many more languages. English Bible translations also have a rich and varied history of more than a millennium.
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For a deist like myself, I believe that a higher power exists, however I don't believe the higher power has any effect on our daily lives. Therefor my faith is only in the existence of the higher power and the after life.
The only idea of faith is that if I live a good and fulfilling life based on the human knowledge of right or wrong, I will be rewarded in the end.
The only idea of faith is that if I live a good and fulfilling life based on the human knowledge of right or wrong, I will be rewarded in the end.
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I remember the day clearly. I was in 4th grade when they started teaching us about Greek Gods. Zeus, Hera, etc. I remember thinking "why do we worship this "God" but not Zeus? I asked priests, my mom, nuns, no one gave me an acceptable answer so I began to research as much as i could on the topic. And the more educated I became the more illogical religion was. I see religion as something people are indoctrinated with and are too scared to let go of it for fear of the unknown.
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I was agnostic for a long time. I found a certain faith through the study philosophy. I have never had blind faith. Always questioning. I was given a mind for a reason and I can understand certain things. Causality is one of them. The universe cannot exist based on our current understanding. Causality is a necessity. Everything has a cause. My belief is based on the concept of the Aristotelian Prime Mover requirement. There must be something before something. There can not be nothing before something. It is impossible given the physical nature of the universe.
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COL (Join to see)
Agreed. You have to suppose a pre-existing thing. That is the end of causality. "It" is not subject to causal relationships like the rest of the universe. Believing we are not entitled to know is based on an assumed inferiority. I'd argue that in the universe, there is no entitlement. That is a human creation. Nature does not have entitlement. There is either take or be taken. If we have the ability, we will know. If we do not, then we will not.
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CPT (Join to see)
Capt Gregory Prickett
Sir, if the premise was "everything that begins to exist has a cause," would you have an issue? I personally believe that is a more cogent premise, since it seems to avoid the "special pleading" charge that would follow from the implicit premise that "everything has a cause (except God)."
To borrow from Kantian epistemology, when we are discussing the existence or non-existence of deities (or fundamental causes of the universe), we are clearly in the realm of transcendental metaphysics (as opposed to the phenomenal realm of everyday experience). We have no idea if innate human categories of thought have any application to the world-as-it-is-in-itself. However, we can not really abandon our rational categories of thought without collapsing into absurdity. Therefore, I think it is reasonable to hold that the a priori synthetic proposition that "everything that begins to exist has a cause" has some truth value for thinking about ultimate causes.
Sir, if the premise was "everything that begins to exist has a cause," would you have an issue? I personally believe that is a more cogent premise, since it seems to avoid the "special pleading" charge that would follow from the implicit premise that "everything has a cause (except God)."
To borrow from Kantian epistemology, when we are discussing the existence or non-existence of deities (or fundamental causes of the universe), we are clearly in the realm of transcendental metaphysics (as opposed to the phenomenal realm of everyday experience). We have no idea if innate human categories of thought have any application to the world-as-it-is-in-itself. However, we can not really abandon our rational categories of thought without collapsing into absurdity. Therefore, I think it is reasonable to hold that the a priori synthetic proposition that "everything that begins to exist has a cause" has some truth value for thinking about ultimate causes.
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COL (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see), a woman after my own philosophical heart. I will accept the Kantian version of the idea of beginning of existence and causality. I dumbed it down a bit for the sake of clarity. Your wording blocks out many readers, but I appreciate it. Capt Gregory Prickett, even though we cannot determine anything before Planck time, there is evidence to something being created IN nothing. The problem is...it happens on its own...and is infinitesimal. Certainly nothing close to providing enough energy for the big-bang, but we are possibly steps away from scientifically determining how the big-bang could happen without the Great Sky Eagle being involved. Unfortunately this brings other questions into mind which are just as vexing. If time (or universes) are created from nothing, then it might drive us towards an infinite time idea. This, unfortunately means we can't exist.
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COL (Join to see)
Fair enough. I can only understand logic and scientific requirements of the universe. I have to make a leap beyond the universe and my mistake is most likely applying universal physical and logic laws to a non-universal requirement.
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I lost my faith at 13 when I read Mila 18. It's a book about the mass genocide of Jews in Poland and the freedom fighters (can't think of the proper term) during the occupation in WWII. The book took me to a dark place where I partially still reside as it is just a continuum of history replete of genocides, to include the murderers of ISIS and the Indonesian government against the Papua New Guineans. There is no way to reconcile the basic ideals of mankind with such malevolent savagery.
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COL (Join to see)
You arrived at an age-old problem at a young age. The "problem of evil" has been debated philosophically for thousands of years. It truly comes to a head when you have a mono-theistic belief where a God is considered Omni-benevolent. This is where there is dissonance with the belief system and what people perceive as goodness in the world. There are many arguments for and against the existence of God in this very focused area.
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CPT Joseph K Murdock
COL (Join to see). Eight words answers it for me: I want to, do what, to whom, why.
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For me, faith and religion can be viewed as two different things. You do not necessarily have to have religion to have faith. While you may not believe in a God or Gods, you still placed your faith in the idea that the person to your left, right, front and back were trained and prepared to do their job when called upon. You can also refer to this as putting your trust into people. Again, you are not necessarily saying there is or is not a God or Gods when you do this.
Religion, to me, is a collective body of people that place some of their trust in the idea of a higher power. They place this trust in this idea because it helps them deal with things.
Religion, to me, is a collective body of people that place some of their trust in the idea of a higher power. They place this trust in this idea because it helps them deal with things.
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I lost it at around age ten. I remember being at temple (my family is Jewish) and the rabbi talking about the exodus from Egypt. I was already burying myself deeply in my father's book collection and was fascinated by both World Wars, so I asked why if god protected his so-called chosen people against the Egyptians and later the Romans with direct intervention, did he do nothing when the Nazis put six million Jews (and fourteen million Christians) in gas ovens?
I don't remember his reply, but I had no trouble figuring the answer out myself.
I don't remember his reply, but I had no trouble figuring the answer out myself.
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I was raised Roman Catholic - and lost my faith in the Church during my Confirmation. I was a huge history buff, and asked why the Church thought it was cool to use murder and terrorism to gain converts in the Middle Ages. I was told to shut up or I would be excommunicated.
Feeling a need to fill the void, I began studying ALL religions, and learned a LOT about how they work and how they developed. I studied the Bible extensively, and a very charismatic man talked me into giving my soul over to Jesus... and I fell so hard that I even ended up earning my Ordination as a Christian Minister and had my own congregation as a Preacher at the Church of Christ in Leesville, LA.
My need to eat forced me to move away, and I found that I couldn't maintain the lifestyle without having horrible double standards - and, since I didn't want to be another Swaggart or Jim Bakker, I set aside my calling but remained very spiritual.
I went back to studying the Bible - and looking at what I had been preaching - and was floored. The hate and misogyny and homophobia and violence I preached - all well supported by the Big Black Book of Rules - I was just astounded. I began studying all faiths again, and realized that they were all in business (key word there: BUSINESS) for two reasons: To keep the masses in line, and to perpetuate a special class of people above the rest. (the clergy).
I began to look very closely at what was being said by religion, and what could be proven, and that was the final straw. I've been an atheist for about a decade.
Feeling a need to fill the void, I began studying ALL religions, and learned a LOT about how they work and how they developed. I studied the Bible extensively, and a very charismatic man talked me into giving my soul over to Jesus... and I fell so hard that I even ended up earning my Ordination as a Christian Minister and had my own congregation as a Preacher at the Church of Christ in Leesville, LA.
My need to eat forced me to move away, and I found that I couldn't maintain the lifestyle without having horrible double standards - and, since I didn't want to be another Swaggart or Jim Bakker, I set aside my calling but remained very spiritual.
I went back to studying the Bible - and looking at what I had been preaching - and was floored. The hate and misogyny and homophobia and violence I preached - all well supported by the Big Black Book of Rules - I was just astounded. I began studying all faiths again, and realized that they were all in business (key word there: BUSINESS) for two reasons: To keep the masses in line, and to perpetuate a special class of people above the rest. (the clergy).
I began to look very closely at what was being said by religion, and what could be proven, and that was the final straw. I've been an atheist for about a decade.
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MCPO (Join to see)
I've been a member there for years, and have counseled others coming to their senses. Thanks - others may appreciate the linky!!
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MCPO (Join to see)
1st Lt Rev. Dr. David Poedel - Are you saying that you can accept one part of the Bible while ignoring other parts? I seem to recall a passage in the New Testament (which is, evidently, what you have cherry-picked) that talks about what happens to those that add to or take away from the words of that book. Maybe your franchise of religion doesn't push that part of it.
I also look at an omnipresent, omniscient, all powerful figure as described in the Bible, that has a pre-ordained plan for all of his creatures and creations, and see an ideal that KNEW that Adam and Eve would sin - but still put the Tree in the Garden... and then held them accountable for the fact that they did exactly what he knew they would do.
THEN, he had to rape a teenaged girl to get her pregnant with his son/himself, who would grow up to be killed to wash away HIS OWN PLAN.
BUT, he wasn't really killed - because he got up and walked away afterward. This means that after screwing over mankind, God sacrificed a weekend to make up for His own mistake.
AND, like any abuser, still clings to the old trope of, "I love you, and you have to love me or I'll punish you forever. If you make any mistakes (which are both inevitable and in my plan), I will forgive you for them, unless you have heard about my love, and you turn away - that one is completely unforgivable, and I'll punish you forever. Oh, and look at everything I do for you - you HAVE to love me - or I'll punish you forever. But don't worry, because I know how you'll decide because I decided for you, and this means you have 'free will'."
Yeah, not so much, Reverend.
I also look at an omnipresent, omniscient, all powerful figure as described in the Bible, that has a pre-ordained plan for all of his creatures and creations, and see an ideal that KNEW that Adam and Eve would sin - but still put the Tree in the Garden... and then held them accountable for the fact that they did exactly what he knew they would do.
THEN, he had to rape a teenaged girl to get her pregnant with his son/himself, who would grow up to be killed to wash away HIS OWN PLAN.
BUT, he wasn't really killed - because he got up and walked away afterward. This means that after screwing over mankind, God sacrificed a weekend to make up for His own mistake.
AND, like any abuser, still clings to the old trope of, "I love you, and you have to love me or I'll punish you forever. If you make any mistakes (which are both inevitable and in my plan), I will forgive you for them, unless you have heard about my love, and you turn away - that one is completely unforgivable, and I'll punish you forever. Oh, and look at everything I do for you - you HAVE to love me - or I'll punish you forever. But don't worry, because I know how you'll decide because I decided for you, and this means you have 'free will'."
Yeah, not so much, Reverend.
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MCPO (Join to see)
1st Lt Rev. Dr. David Poedel - What about when the guy that gave the Gospel is supposed to have said something about that the Law was still in affect and that He didn't come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until Heaven and Earth pass away? Kinda seems clear to me.
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