Posted on Aug 22, 2014
Feelings on displaying the Confederate flag on your POV or person while on a military installation?
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Recently, I had a long and heated discussion with a fellow veteran about this issue. I don't know for sure whether a branch-specific reg or a DoD-wide reg exists that prohibits/allows personnel on a military installation to display the Confederate flag on their personal vehicle or on their person (e.g. a belt buckle). Maybe this is a base-specific policy and left to the judgment of the installation commander. Display of the Confederate flag is a divisive issue and people often feel really strongly one way or the other. But today, it is still a relevant topic and touches on other military leadership/discipline areas, including the actions of one member deeply offending another member -- regardless of whether said action is legal/authorized. That can create huge problems in a military unit, and this happened in a unit I personally served in. So, below are my questions for the RallyPoint community about this issue.
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Regulation
Policy
Respect
Confederate Flag
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
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Umm all I have to say is that I'm black and I have the Mississippi flag (which has the Confederate flag in it) tattooed on my left arm. It's just a symbol of the south. It doesnt necessarily mean hate. Now the Swastika is a whole different meaning... ban that instead of the Confederate flag.
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Sir
1. My opinion regarding the Confederate flag remains the same whether a servicemember is on or off post.
2. To me, the Confederate flag symbolizes home. It's a symbol of comfort because it reminds me of the culture and traditions I share with the people from the Deep South. It also represents people who were willing to lose it all to defend their state's rights.
To others, I believe the flag can represent racism, disloyalty to the USA and/or a country torn apart from this inside. I know where I'm from, there are many who still "smell the powder burning".
3. Yes I have been in this situation before however it was with the Texas State flag. I had a little flag in my "cellar" in Afghanistan and people would pick it up and talk smack. I was extremely offended by it and I expressed my feelings in the most Christian way possible but I left it at that.
Excluding the Bible or cross, if I had a symbol that offended someone, I would take it down. It would definitely be hard to swallow my pride but for me personally, I subject myself to the Bible regulations and that means if it isn't promoting Christ then it's not a battle worth fighting. No I'm not holier than thou or anything but I do try to follow Jesus' example.
However as a leader I would not expect the same from my soldiers because they may not hold themselves accountable to the Bible. The way I would handle it would be a case-by-case basis, however I would try to ensure my decision reflected my two basic responsibilities: accomplish the mission and take care of my soldiers.
1. My opinion regarding the Confederate flag remains the same whether a servicemember is on or off post.
2. To me, the Confederate flag symbolizes home. It's a symbol of comfort because it reminds me of the culture and traditions I share with the people from the Deep South. It also represents people who were willing to lose it all to defend their state's rights.
To others, I believe the flag can represent racism, disloyalty to the USA and/or a country torn apart from this inside. I know where I'm from, there are many who still "smell the powder burning".
3. Yes I have been in this situation before however it was with the Texas State flag. I had a little flag in my "cellar" in Afghanistan and people would pick it up and talk smack. I was extremely offended by it and I expressed my feelings in the most Christian way possible but I left it at that.
Excluding the Bible or cross, if I had a symbol that offended someone, I would take it down. It would definitely be hard to swallow my pride but for me personally, I subject myself to the Bible regulations and that means if it isn't promoting Christ then it's not a battle worth fighting. No I'm not holier than thou or anything but I do try to follow Jesus' example.
However as a leader I would not expect the same from my soldiers because they may not hold themselves accountable to the Bible. The way I would handle it would be a case-by-case basis, however I would try to ensure my decision reflected my two basic responsibilities: accomplish the mission and take care of my soldiers.
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LTC Lee Bouchard
Cpl Wessley Rodgers -
I think most were not aware that slave trading was the main trade at he time. Black on black trading began long before European's became aware of the value of the slave market. Europe was first to embrace the idea. Then N. and S. America about the same period. Those who were traded or sold in Central and So. America were treated far worst than anywhere else in the world. Their survival rate was very low.
I think most were not aware that slave trading was the main trade at he time. Black on black trading began long before European's became aware of the value of the slave market. Europe was first to embrace the idea. Then N. and S. America about the same period. Those who were traded or sold in Central and So. America were treated far worst than anywhere else in the world. Their survival rate was very low.
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MSgt Allen Chandler
There’s a difference between the confederate flag in any given state flag. I’m from California and I am very proud of the many things that California has done that was good. I also have knowledge that there are some things that California has done that we’re good not good that I’m not proud of and that should be apologize for. The same cannot be said for the Confederate battle flag. It was not a states rights fight it was a right about owning and controlling slaves based on their race. You talk about the Bible and the Bible with knowledge of slavery and even has lotta rules about how to treat a slave. And the 16th and 17th century in America we somehow came to the conclusion that slavery was just fine based only on the color of skin and nothing else. The confederate states (The ones with Drew from the union) stated in their charter papers that one and in particular the most important reason they were withdrawing from the union what is the question of slavery. Immediately upon which line from the union confederate forces invaded one of the states that was staying with the union and occupied United States territory. The flag The flu during the invasion what is the Confederate battle flag or they flew during the invasion what is the Confederate battle flag. The Confederate battle flag was used for no other reason then to symbolize withdraw from the union and treason to the United States of America.
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Kenn Evans II
In the northern states, slavery was very much alive and well. Many of the Irish slaves never got a true freedom except in death. The slaves in the north out numbered the south. New York had even threatened to withdraw from the Union over states rights. The events of the Civil War go back earlier in to the 1820-40's, Turbulent and growing pains of our Great Nation, that need to be taught, not made politically correct as to not offend anyone. If this generation can't handle it, they need to grow a pair and dig in. History has been sanitized by the victor. "Ignorance is Bliss", means to be stupid, stupid is to be controlled, to control others, keep them dumbed down. To be dumb is to be stupid. We have the tools and resources in this awesome country to enhance and educate, but it is up to the individual to do it for themselves. Buy and get into the old books about our history, discover what is being lost before we continue to repeat it with the same if not more dire consequences. Make yourself better, not better than others, but better than you were the day before.
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Arguing that people shouldn't judge you or assume things based on these displays is utter crap: if that's the case, why are you displaying it?
If you understand nothing else out of this entire thread, understand that people have extremely strong opinions about this issue, for and against. Every day you are judged by people before you speak based on how you look, how you are dressed, how tall you are..., etc. If you feel that you are in a position where making the best possible first impression is irrelevant for you, by all means, plaster your vehicle with your flags (confederate, rainbow, TX, Cuban, or otherwise), symbols (peace, hammer and sickle, Calvin peeing on a Chevy, whatever), and various sexual/political/hometown slogans. Wear your gang's bandanna, your football team's belt buckle, I don't care. But know that you are screaming information about yourself to everyone who sees it. Information that you may never have an opportunity to correct. You can puff yourself up and proclaim that the problem is them and not you but it will absolutely not change that first impression.
Look, I get that for you personally, it might mean something else. A great example is that someone might have an OIF veteran license plate, but that in no way means he/she supported the Iraq war on an ideological level or votes republican, but those are all things a viewer might assume. If you don't care that people will assume that, get the plate. If you do, you have to think about that fact before deciding to broadcast that information.
If you read my other posts on lots of topics, you know that I am against the idea of banning things. To ban something is to give it power. If you don't like it, ignore it. But on the other side, drop the argument that you mean something different when you fly the flag. That would be like saying I have a Miami Dolphins sticker on my car because I'm from Miami, not because I like that team. That might be 100% true, but that's not the impression my sticker gives the the majority of people viewing it. I can dislike that or disagree, but I can't try to say all of those people are wrong for making a perfectly valid assumption. Pointing out that there is different historical information doesn't take away from the umpteen interactions I have personally had with bigoted people using this exact symbol. You need to give those people your information and tell them to stop using this symbol if it means so much to you. You are arguing with the wrong individuals.
If you understand nothing else out of this entire thread, understand that people have extremely strong opinions about this issue, for and against. Every day you are judged by people before you speak based on how you look, how you are dressed, how tall you are..., etc. If you feel that you are in a position where making the best possible first impression is irrelevant for you, by all means, plaster your vehicle with your flags (confederate, rainbow, TX, Cuban, or otherwise), symbols (peace, hammer and sickle, Calvin peeing on a Chevy, whatever), and various sexual/political/hometown slogans. Wear your gang's bandanna, your football team's belt buckle, I don't care. But know that you are screaming information about yourself to everyone who sees it. Information that you may never have an opportunity to correct. You can puff yourself up and proclaim that the problem is them and not you but it will absolutely not change that first impression.
Look, I get that for you personally, it might mean something else. A great example is that someone might have an OIF veteran license plate, but that in no way means he/she supported the Iraq war on an ideological level or votes republican, but those are all things a viewer might assume. If you don't care that people will assume that, get the plate. If you do, you have to think about that fact before deciding to broadcast that information.
If you read my other posts on lots of topics, you know that I am against the idea of banning things. To ban something is to give it power. If you don't like it, ignore it. But on the other side, drop the argument that you mean something different when you fly the flag. That would be like saying I have a Miami Dolphins sticker on my car because I'm from Miami, not because I like that team. That might be 100% true, but that's not the impression my sticker gives the the majority of people viewing it. I can dislike that or disagree, but I can't try to say all of those people are wrong for making a perfectly valid assumption. Pointing out that there is different historical information doesn't take away from the umpteen interactions I have personally had with bigoted people using this exact symbol. You need to give those people your information and tell them to stop using this symbol if it means so much to you. You are arguing with the wrong individuals.
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CMSgt (Join to see)
Thank you for that very well-reasoned and articulate response. Just perfect. Spot-on.
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MSgt Allen Chandler
CPT Daniel Cox - I respect your right and your daughters right to hold these opinions as wrong as they are. If you’re referring to the state flag with the confederate cross in the corner even the state has now greed to remove it. If you’re referring to the Confederate battle flag the only thing it has symbolized (let me repeat that the only thing that he has ever symbolize) is withdraw from the United States of America to continue the standard of slavery as it was Then practiced
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Vance Frickey
Maj Martin Smith - The Scottish Cross of St. Andrews was the banner under which evrry war of independence from England was fought. It's also part of the Union Jack reprsenting every country taken into Great Britain. Soldiers from all of the UK's consituent conuntries salute that combined flag which honors ALL the countries which used to be independent from the English Crown.
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PO1 Milton Wiseman
First impression, CPT, you hit that nail square. That is your image and if it is misconstrued right off the bat, the damage is done. Why even risk it?
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