Posted on Dec 23, 2014
Forced Participation in Christmas celebrations: What would you do?
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From a group for NCOs and former NCOs....
I am currently on a tour in XXXXXX, a newly assigned squad leader to a group of disgruntled soldiers who have been here 7 months. To help morale and esprit de corps, the company has thrown a massive Christmas party, decked to the nines with stockings Christmas everything.
The problem is, two of my Soldiers are not Christian in faith, one is a devout Muslim who does not celebrate Christmas. She informed her previous leadership that she does not celebrate and they forced her to participate in writing her name on a stocking and attend every Christmas party. The command team has refused to call it a holiday party, and has written Christmas on everything from the schedule to the walls. I heard from another NCO that she could be contemplating an EO complaint from the issue.
I researched a little about the Muslim faith and found that I would be upset if I were in her shoes too. I want to talk to her, but I am not Muslim and do not want to offend her. I would refer her to a chaplain, but the camp does not have a Muslim chaplain.
I don't want the situation to escalate, but I don't want to disrespect my new Soldier, who probably has a real case. What should I do? She obviously doesn't want to come to me because she doesn't know me, but they will question me if this all comes to a boil
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I know what I would do, but I'm an EOL, and have been through the training. What would YOU do?
I am currently on a tour in XXXXXX, a newly assigned squad leader to a group of disgruntled soldiers who have been here 7 months. To help morale and esprit de corps, the company has thrown a massive Christmas party, decked to the nines with stockings Christmas everything.
The problem is, two of my Soldiers are not Christian in faith, one is a devout Muslim who does not celebrate Christmas. She informed her previous leadership that she does not celebrate and they forced her to participate in writing her name on a stocking and attend every Christmas party. The command team has refused to call it a holiday party, and has written Christmas on everything from the schedule to the walls. I heard from another NCO that she could be contemplating an EO complaint from the issue.
I researched a little about the Muslim faith and found that I would be upset if I were in her shoes too. I want to talk to her, but I am not Muslim and do not want to offend her. I would refer her to a chaplain, but the camp does not have a Muslim chaplain.
I don't want the situation to escalate, but I don't want to disrespect my new Soldier, who probably has a real case. What should I do? She obviously doesn't want to come to me because she doesn't know me, but they will question me if this all comes to a boil
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I know what I would do, but I'm an EOL, and have been through the training. What would YOU do?
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 25
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Sir, regardless if you are Muslem or not, you still have an obligation to hear her concerns. Although she may not celebrate Christmas, she can still participate in a mandated military function no matter what label you put on it. If your culture or religion was to have women clean and not the men, would you allow your male soldiers to get out of a G.I. Party? I think not. You can sell this to her in a way that she understands that the function has nothing to do with religious beliefs. She doesn't have to purchase presents and exchange gifts, but in my opinion she should be there for her fellow soldiers. It is a huge part of tradition and heritage. Where do we draw the line? Pretty soon we will not be able to have tradition because we as a nation will be too worried about offending someone's beliefs or religion. America has so much diversity that we cannot afford to accomdate everyone. If we did we would not be able to have a standard. Everyone in the military has joined on a volunteer basis. You have the right to practice your religion, but you don't have the right for your religion to impact mission readiness or effectiveness.
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SMSgt (Join to see)
No, I don't believe one should have to suck it up buy presents at all if their faith doesn't allow it. Participation by being present is good enough. It's very funny that most utilize the religion card when it benefits their own needs.
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SSG (Join to see)
MSgt, to YOU being present is good enough. To others, full participation is good enough. To even others, choosing to be there or not to be there is also good enough. How would you feel if you were told you not only had to be there but you also had to buy "gifts" to do exchanges?
Oh, and implying I'm using the "religion card" (whatever that is) to benefit myself is flat out dishonest. I am not religious in any way, shape or form.
Oh, and implying I'm using the "religion card" (whatever that is) to benefit myself is flat out dishonest. I am not religious in any way, shape or form.
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SMSgt (Join to see)
SSG, it's obvious that we do not agree, but it's all good I respect your opinion. You have been more fortunate than I have. I have never had an option not to participate and I fully understand why. It's important especially as a leader to support these types of functions especially when it is still part of a duty day. I have never had a holiday party that was held after hours, ours have always started around noon and went to 1630. I could understand if one was held after hours and members were forced to go, that would be unexceptable. I believe that is the reason why they hold them during the duty day is to get max participation. I can't say that I have ever ran across the issue of someone's faith not allowing them to show up for a party. I think that it would send the wrong message for people to buy and exchange gifts if their faith doesn't allow it.
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SSG (Join to see)
MSgt, some have been during the "duty day" and some have been after hours. Regardless of when, forcing someone to attend is just plain wrong. You just admitted forcing someone to attend after hours is unacceptable. Why so if attending is suppose to be in support of unit cohesion? Regardless of HOW it is worded, force is not conducive to military cohesion or espirit de corps.
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Take care of your Soldier. Excuse her from the event. This is what we do as NCOs
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Since I am a firm believer in not forcing my religious, political, as well as personal opinions on others, I feel command made a huge and unforgivable mistake.
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I surely was not a commander of any kind but did have psychology and conflict management when I went to college. I think it odd for starters that people move to a country where they no what our beliefs are. Fine when I joined the military it was my understanding that I was now property of the Government not the Government was owned by the soldier.. But in this case each person has the right to their own religion. I would probably take the stocking cut it in a few pieces that has her name on it and throw half of it away in front of her and hand the other half of it to her with a gentleness in your eyes that says I'm sorry and point to the garbage can and the part of the stocking she has.
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PV2 Violet Case
This Sir was my misunderstanding that led me to think she could not speak english. copied from story"I want to talk to her, but I am not Muslim and do not want to offend her. " And my comment was meant if she couldn't speak english not out of any way to shame her was meant Sir, to be sure to gesture with gentleness (also meaning kindness) in your eyes as you threw away part of it to show you understand and respect her beliefs. When it comes to ones religion Sir I am very heart felt, to have that freedom of religion is one thing that helped me decide to join. I would never change my religion and never expect anyone else to do it either. And it is each persons right to do so as long as it hurts no one else. I am for sure glad to hear that they can all speak English thank you Sir for correcting me on that. Thank you also Sir for your service.
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Yes, The Army that IS YOU!! have to accommodates every Religion, EO is the first thing Soldier want to do , yes Call the EO and encourage the EO to have observance months , oh Remember Ramadan is coming, and explain the Soldierss that is very important to Support one to another you all in the same boat DEPLOY so the only one to fix the problem is some NCO talk to Subordinate and explain .. have fun !!
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To answer the question what would you/I do... don't wait for it to become an issue, take decisive action. You know there's an issue brewing? Handle it ASAP whether you feel weird or not. Maybe you take the wrong action, maybe you take the right action, but take action. And preferably take the right action, which is to escort the soldier to any chaplain if there isn't a Muslim chaplain.
As for me, because I like storytime... I'm Jewish. When I was at Ft. Meade we had a Christmas party. Guess who they asked [read as: volun-told] to be an elf. I said yes, eventually, after pretending to be a little miffed that I was not asked to be Hanukkah Harry.
As for me, because I like storytime... I'm Jewish. When I was at Ft. Meade we had a Christmas party. Guess who they asked [read as: volun-told] to be an elf. I said yes, eventually, after pretending to be a little miffed that I was not asked to be Hanukkah Harry.
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If she does not get support from the Command (as you stated in the post) she should seek support from EO. If she does not; it will affect those who follow her because the climate will remain uneducated. Personal courage.
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It's a CoC problem. The soldier should escalate the case outside of the unit through the proper channels to seek a resolution. The other option is the soldier could grow a spine, and not show up. I'd love to see them 'counsel' a Muslim soldier for not participating in a Christian themed holiday party. Career ender anyone?
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I learned early in my Army tenure to question whether the mandatory event would involve alcohol. IDK about current regs, but there was a regulation then that forbid mandating participation in events involving alcohol.
My favorite was when they would hold an event and tell me that it was mandatory that my wife attend. When I stopped laughing they'd ask what was so funny. I'd tell them that THEY could tell my wife that she "must attend". She was young, but she was smart enough to know that SHE did not join the Army.
I think a discussion is needed with the soldier in question. An honest, open discussion.
My favorite was when they would hold an event and tell me that it was mandatory that my wife attend. When I stopped laughing they'd ask what was so funny. I'd tell them that THEY could tell my wife that she "must attend". She was young, but she was smart enough to know that SHE did not join the Army.
I think a discussion is needed with the soldier in question. An honest, open discussion.
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