Posted on Jun 4, 2015
"Harrisburg police officer wrongly accuses veteran, 75, of 'stolen valor'"
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This article was originally published on pennlive.com:
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An Army soldier attending Artsfest on Memorial Day thought something was fishy with the Marine uniform worn by 75-year-old Robert Ford, who was strolling along Front Street.
Ford's hat bore some wrinkles, according to the soldier's assessment, and his belt buckle looked too ornate for his rank.
The soldier enlisted the help of a Harrisburg police officer working at the event, who was a Marine, and together, they accused Ford of being a fraud.
"He's not a real Marine!" the officer shouted to the crowd gathered for the PennLive/Patriot-News Artsfest of Greater Harrisburg. "Stolen valor!"
"I was humiliated," said Ford, of Marysville.
The only problem is Ford did serve in the Marines from 1958 to 1964. He earned the rank of lance corporal.
"He's as legit as you can get," said Doug Sterner, a Vietnam veteran and archivist from Pueblo, Colo., who is nationally recognized for detecting military fraud. Sterner confirmed Ford's military service this week through Headquarters Marine Corps.
The incident in Harrisburg, Sterner said, represents a troubling trend across the country of veterans becoming vigilantes.
Veterans are angry, Sterner said, after a federal law about "stolen valor," was struck down in 2012 and a meeker version passed in its place. Under the new law, few cases are being investigated or prosecuted against people who falsely claim military awards or service, Sterner said.
"The veteran community, frustrated and upset, is saying, 'OK. We'll do it ourselves,' " Sterner said. "But what it's leading to is a bunch of hot heads. ... There's a lot of bullying going on in the community now. It's almost like hunting game, going out looking for phonies."
In many cases, veterans or others who spot inconsistences are rewarded for their efforts. In Pennsylvania alone, people outed Jim Moats, of Newville, for his fake Navy Seal story; Brian Khan, of Harrisburg, for pretending to be a Marine; and Mark Kauffman, a veteran who's disabled status became an issue in March.
B.G. "Jug" Burkett, a Dallas-area Vietnam veteran who wrote a book entitled, "Stolen Valor," understands why people get upset at fakes who try to gain respect by claiming they served "shoulder to shoulder with those who gave their lives for America."
Burkett has helped in numerous prosecutions of fake military war heroes. But he said what happened in Harrisburg was a shame.
"I think that cop was out of line, approaching him like that with no evidence," Burkett said. "This is an older guy and maybe they didn't dress the same way 50 years ago."
Sterner agreed.
"I'd rather see a dozen phonies get kudos they don't deserve than besmirch the reputation of one innocent veteran," he said. "Even if I see something totally outlandish, I'm not going to jump. ... You don't just go up and confront people."
Ford asked to file a complaint with the Harrisburg Police Department over the way the officer, Detective John O'Connor, treated him. Capt. Deric Moody promised an investigation.
But as of Wednesday night, no one had contacted Ford or apologized to him. Moody told PennLive he still was trying to confirm Ford's military status.
Anthony Flaynik, the commandant of the local detachment of the Marine Corps League, said his group was doing their own investigation into the police department's actions.
"He gives up his time volunteering for honor guard for veteran funerals every three weeks," Flaynik said of Ford. "He comes out in the rain, shine, hot, cold. We need to do what we can to help him."
The incident
Ford has a tradition on Memorial Day. He dons his dress blue uniform, visits the cemetery, plays "Taps" on his bugle in a wreath-laying ceremony along the Susquehanna River, then attends Artsfest, where he looks for presents for his granddaughter.
But this year, as he was perusing the artware, a uniformed officer approached along with a man in civilian clothes.
The officer asked for Ford's unit and his military occupation specialty.
Ford answered and noted he specialized in machine guns, rockets and flame-throwers.
"I have to investigate for 'stolen valor,' " the officer said, which Ford said he found insulting.
Still, Ford let it pass and recommended the officer attend the wreath-laying ceremony next year. The officer simply walked away.
Ford returned to shopping, but 10 minutes later was again confronted by the officer in front of The Patriot-News booth.
"Where did you go to boot camp?" the officer said.
Ford said he couldn't figure out why the officer was questioning his service. Ford hadn't claimed any war heroics and his uniform bore no combat medals.
"What am I trying to do?" Ford said. "Impersonate a lance corporal who never served in combat?"
Things quickly escalated.
"What is your problem?" Ford asked.
The officer reiterated his demand.
Fed up, Ford told the officer to leave him alone in terms that contained an expletive.
That's when the officer started shouting, Ford said.
"You don't know where you went to boot camp," the officer said, according to Ford. "You aren't a Marine."
Ford said the soldier joined in, shouting: "Stolen Valor! This man is a fake!"
Embarrassed, Ford slinked away, but the men followed. When Ford stopped and turned to face them, Ford said the officer waved his hand over his holstered weapon as if he were ready to draw it on Ford.
"I was getting very nervous," Ford said. "I was afraid to reach for my wallet."
A woman working at The Patriot-News booth, who did not want her name published, confirmed Ford's account that the officer followed Ford and yelled that Ford wasn't a Marine.
The woman said the ordeal lasted about 10 to 15 minutes. She described the officer as being antagonistic and said she believed the officer was trying to get Ford to make a move.
Eventually, Ford did retrieve his wallet to show the officer his U.S. Veterans Affairs card. The officer motioned for the soldier to examine it, Ford said.
The soldier concluded that Ford's VA card was a "fake and that anybody can print those out," Ford said.
That's when Ford asked for the officer's supervisor. Ford walked a block or so to meet Capt. Moody, with the officer and soldier trailing.
Moody talked to Ford and inspected his identification cards by holding them up in the air and tilting them, drawing more attention and embarrassing Ford.
The kerfuffle attracted a television news crew.
"People were gawking at the scene," Ford said. "People must have been thinking this was really bad."
Eventually, Moody, also a Marine, reportedly told Ford "it would be best if he just left, to avoid the camera and all the people that were now watching."
Ford refused. He merged back in with the crowd, but noticed the officer lurking nearby, arms folded with his eyes fixed on Ford. Ford said he was disappointed Moody had not instructed the officer to move on.
Ford had hoped Moody would set things right. Instead, Ford said he felt even worse after the encounter.
"I felt their attitude was like, 'So what.' " Ford said. "I've spent almost my whole life working on veterans' issues."
Ford said he has launched programs to help veterans, is active in his local Marine Corp League and occasionally contributes letters about veterans' issues to the Opinion section of The Patriot-News.
Moody said the officer didn't curse nor put his hands on Ford so the incident didn't rise to the level of an internal affairs investigation. Instead, Moody said he was conducting an informal review of the incident.
"There were inconsistencies in his uniform," Moody said of Ford. "If an apology is due, then an apology is due."
Get evidence first
Experts who advocate for veterans and root out military fraud say public humiliation is not the way to go when one suspects something askew about a military uniform.
Older soldiers can forget the proper order of ribbons, but "that doesn't mean they're a phony," said Sterner, who runs a website called Home for Heroes. "Even real heroes make mistakes."
Sterner has accumulated a database of top military war medals as one method to guard against fraudulent claims.
Even with Sterner's background, he said he has only confronted one person in 15 years over "stolen valor" and that's because he knew the names of all the medal recipients for a particular award being claimed.
Sterner recommended that people concerned with military fraud should simply take down a person's information and "get their ducks in a row."
"I'm not going to confront or accost someone," Sterner said. "I'm going to get my evidence first."
Burkett, who lectures FBI agents and government-fraud investigators, advises on his website how people can check their suspicions by requesting the actual military records.
"I'm just surprised at this cop," Burkett said. "Most of the time, a real vet would not do that. ... People should ask questions first, then go check things out later."
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/harrisburg_artsfest_veteran_st.html#incart_m-rpt-2
--
An Army soldier attending Artsfest on Memorial Day thought something was fishy with the Marine uniform worn by 75-year-old Robert Ford, who was strolling along Front Street.
Ford's hat bore some wrinkles, according to the soldier's assessment, and his belt buckle looked too ornate for his rank.
The soldier enlisted the help of a Harrisburg police officer working at the event, who was a Marine, and together, they accused Ford of being a fraud.
"He's not a real Marine!" the officer shouted to the crowd gathered for the PennLive/Patriot-News Artsfest of Greater Harrisburg. "Stolen valor!"
"I was humiliated," said Ford, of Marysville.
The only problem is Ford did serve in the Marines from 1958 to 1964. He earned the rank of lance corporal.
"He's as legit as you can get," said Doug Sterner, a Vietnam veteran and archivist from Pueblo, Colo., who is nationally recognized for detecting military fraud. Sterner confirmed Ford's military service this week through Headquarters Marine Corps.
The incident in Harrisburg, Sterner said, represents a troubling trend across the country of veterans becoming vigilantes.
Veterans are angry, Sterner said, after a federal law about "stolen valor," was struck down in 2012 and a meeker version passed in its place. Under the new law, few cases are being investigated or prosecuted against people who falsely claim military awards or service, Sterner said.
"The veteran community, frustrated and upset, is saying, 'OK. We'll do it ourselves,' " Sterner said. "But what it's leading to is a bunch of hot heads. ... There's a lot of bullying going on in the community now. It's almost like hunting game, going out looking for phonies."
In many cases, veterans or others who spot inconsistences are rewarded for their efforts. In Pennsylvania alone, people outed Jim Moats, of Newville, for his fake Navy Seal story; Brian Khan, of Harrisburg, for pretending to be a Marine; and Mark Kauffman, a veteran who's disabled status became an issue in March.
B.G. "Jug" Burkett, a Dallas-area Vietnam veteran who wrote a book entitled, "Stolen Valor," understands why people get upset at fakes who try to gain respect by claiming they served "shoulder to shoulder with those who gave their lives for America."
Burkett has helped in numerous prosecutions of fake military war heroes. But he said what happened in Harrisburg was a shame.
"I think that cop was out of line, approaching him like that with no evidence," Burkett said. "This is an older guy and maybe they didn't dress the same way 50 years ago."
Sterner agreed.
"I'd rather see a dozen phonies get kudos they don't deserve than besmirch the reputation of one innocent veteran," he said. "Even if I see something totally outlandish, I'm not going to jump. ... You don't just go up and confront people."
Ford asked to file a complaint with the Harrisburg Police Department over the way the officer, Detective John O'Connor, treated him. Capt. Deric Moody promised an investigation.
But as of Wednesday night, no one had contacted Ford or apologized to him. Moody told PennLive he still was trying to confirm Ford's military status.
Anthony Flaynik, the commandant of the local detachment of the Marine Corps League, said his group was doing their own investigation into the police department's actions.
"He gives up his time volunteering for honor guard for veteran funerals every three weeks," Flaynik said of Ford. "He comes out in the rain, shine, hot, cold. We need to do what we can to help him."
The incident
Ford has a tradition on Memorial Day. He dons his dress blue uniform, visits the cemetery, plays "Taps" on his bugle in a wreath-laying ceremony along the Susquehanna River, then attends Artsfest, where he looks for presents for his granddaughter.
But this year, as he was perusing the artware, a uniformed officer approached along with a man in civilian clothes.
The officer asked for Ford's unit and his military occupation specialty.
Ford answered and noted he specialized in machine guns, rockets and flame-throwers.
"I have to investigate for 'stolen valor,' " the officer said, which Ford said he found insulting.
Still, Ford let it pass and recommended the officer attend the wreath-laying ceremony next year. The officer simply walked away.
Ford returned to shopping, but 10 minutes later was again confronted by the officer in front of The Patriot-News booth.
"Where did you go to boot camp?" the officer said.
Ford said he couldn't figure out why the officer was questioning his service. Ford hadn't claimed any war heroics and his uniform bore no combat medals.
"What am I trying to do?" Ford said. "Impersonate a lance corporal who never served in combat?"
Things quickly escalated.
"What is your problem?" Ford asked.
The officer reiterated his demand.
Fed up, Ford told the officer to leave him alone in terms that contained an expletive.
That's when the officer started shouting, Ford said.
"You don't know where you went to boot camp," the officer said, according to Ford. "You aren't a Marine."
Ford said the soldier joined in, shouting: "Stolen Valor! This man is a fake!"
Embarrassed, Ford slinked away, but the men followed. When Ford stopped and turned to face them, Ford said the officer waved his hand over his holstered weapon as if he were ready to draw it on Ford.
"I was getting very nervous," Ford said. "I was afraid to reach for my wallet."
A woman working at The Patriot-News booth, who did not want her name published, confirmed Ford's account that the officer followed Ford and yelled that Ford wasn't a Marine.
The woman said the ordeal lasted about 10 to 15 minutes. She described the officer as being antagonistic and said she believed the officer was trying to get Ford to make a move.
Eventually, Ford did retrieve his wallet to show the officer his U.S. Veterans Affairs card. The officer motioned for the soldier to examine it, Ford said.
The soldier concluded that Ford's VA card was a "fake and that anybody can print those out," Ford said.
That's when Ford asked for the officer's supervisor. Ford walked a block or so to meet Capt. Moody, with the officer and soldier trailing.
Moody talked to Ford and inspected his identification cards by holding them up in the air and tilting them, drawing more attention and embarrassing Ford.
The kerfuffle attracted a television news crew.
"People were gawking at the scene," Ford said. "People must have been thinking this was really bad."
Eventually, Moody, also a Marine, reportedly told Ford "it would be best if he just left, to avoid the camera and all the people that were now watching."
Ford refused. He merged back in with the crowd, but noticed the officer lurking nearby, arms folded with his eyes fixed on Ford. Ford said he was disappointed Moody had not instructed the officer to move on.
Ford had hoped Moody would set things right. Instead, Ford said he felt even worse after the encounter.
"I felt their attitude was like, 'So what.' " Ford said. "I've spent almost my whole life working on veterans' issues."
Ford said he has launched programs to help veterans, is active in his local Marine Corp League and occasionally contributes letters about veterans' issues to the Opinion section of The Patriot-News.
Moody said the officer didn't curse nor put his hands on Ford so the incident didn't rise to the level of an internal affairs investigation. Instead, Moody said he was conducting an informal review of the incident.
"There were inconsistencies in his uniform," Moody said of Ford. "If an apology is due, then an apology is due."
Get evidence first
Experts who advocate for veterans and root out military fraud say public humiliation is not the way to go when one suspects something askew about a military uniform.
Older soldiers can forget the proper order of ribbons, but "that doesn't mean they're a phony," said Sterner, who runs a website called Home for Heroes. "Even real heroes make mistakes."
Sterner has accumulated a database of top military war medals as one method to guard against fraudulent claims.
Even with Sterner's background, he said he has only confronted one person in 15 years over "stolen valor" and that's because he knew the names of all the medal recipients for a particular award being claimed.
Sterner recommended that people concerned with military fraud should simply take down a person's information and "get their ducks in a row."
"I'm not going to confront or accost someone," Sterner said. "I'm going to get my evidence first."
Burkett, who lectures FBI agents and government-fraud investigators, advises on his website how people can check their suspicions by requesting the actual military records.
"I'm just surprised at this cop," Burkett said. "Most of the time, a real vet would not do that. ... People should ask questions first, then go check things out later."
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/harrisburg_artsfest_veteran_st.html#incart_m-rpt-2
Posted in these groups: 
Stolen Valor
Stolen Valor
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 147
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I've never gone out of my way to "out" anyone. I'm not perfect and without hard evidence there's no way I could be certain of a person's veteran status. There's no need to humiliate someone just because of a little knowledge. I certainly would never "out" someone of a different service. I'm Navy. What do I know of the Army or Air Force uniform regs? I'm more knowledgeable about US Marines and Navy but with the passing of years, I don't know all of those either. best to keep my mouth shut.
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I am appalled by the officer's actions and that of the Army Veteran.They both owe the Marine Veteran a apology.If I was Capt.Moody I would personally take that officer to the Marine. Veteran's home and both apologize .Then They should apologize to the Community they serve for being a embarrassment to the uniform they wear!
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I can understand the concern for stolen valor. I cannot understand a policeman's harassing a person whom he thinks is not a true veteran. Even questioning the validity of his documentation when it is displayed to him. Outrageous behavior by a Law Enforcement Officer representing "We the People". Are we now at guilty before proven innocent?
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Hello All,
I recall seeing that video, I am sorry this man had to go through that stress and public embarrassment. My father was in the Marine Corps a few years before him. I also work near Camp Lejeune and have many older vets who were drafted or first termers. Many were only in for a few years during this time period and still proud of their service. Most are looking for uniforms for parades or their burials and cannot really recall the uniform regulations for wear of the uniforms, medals, etc..
I recall seeing that video, I am sorry this man had to go through that stress and public embarrassment. My father was in the Marine Corps a few years before him. I also work near Camp Lejeune and have many older vets who were drafted or first termers. Many were only in for a few years during this time period and still proud of their service. Most are looking for uniforms for parades or their burials and cannot really recall the uniform regulations for wear of the uniforms, medals, etc..
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It's kinda hard to tell what is what with the decorations. I get to Ft. Jackson a lot and see Buck Sgts and some E-4s with more lettuce on their uniforms then Clint Eatwood in Hesrtbreak Ridge. I figure if there on an Army Base they are legit. More power to them.
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Some cops are real punks, not all. The job seems to attract that type alot. I had noticed that since high school and seeing who became a cop.
Active duty or a Vet should care less if they spot a faker. Now if a faker is making money or getting favors then it would be time do something. Before that I could only laugh at such or just go "yea, whatever, fool".
Active duty or a Vet should care less if they spot a faker. Now if a faker is making money or getting favors then it would be time do something. Before that I could only laugh at such or just go "yea, whatever, fool".
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Last time I checked "Poop Police" wasn't on the list of any of our general orders. When on active duty we get plenty of extra duty assignments, maintenance details, chaser duty, mess duty, guard duty, duty NCO etc. As offensive as it is to many I can never understand why after leaving active duty so many who avoided extra duty at all cost when it could have done them some good, feel the need to take on this extra duty when there is in the end nothing to gain. There are much greater impostors hiding in the chain of command that actually cost our brothers and sisters their lives that deserve our attention. Semper Fi.
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Logan I'm locked out. 4 attempts to get verified call the number I gave you
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This is just disgusting. Apparently the 'soldier' was an Army Officer who was never named. Shame on both of them for this.
This just goes to show that you better be sure before you accuse someone. People who victimize legitimate vets should be outed in turn. Publish their names so they won't do it again.
The unfortunate result of all these imposters is that real vets are forced to answer to folks who honestly just don't know any better.
This just goes to show that you better be sure before you accuse someone. People who victimize legitimate vets should be outed in turn. Publish their names so they won't do it again.
The unfortunate result of all these imposters is that real vets are forced to answer to folks who honestly just don't know any better.
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LCPL Ford,
I am truly sorry that you were treated with such downright disrespect. Those that mistreated you are truly lower than a snakes belly in a wagon rut. I wish that I could have been there to render assistance.
I am truly sorry that you were treated with such downright disrespect. Those that mistreated you are truly lower than a snakes belly in a wagon rut. I wish that I could have been there to render assistance.
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