Posted on Jun 4, 2015
"Harrisburg police officer wrongly accuses veteran, 75, of 'stolen valor'"
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This article was originally published on pennlive.com:
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An Army soldier attending Artsfest on Memorial Day thought something was fishy with the Marine uniform worn by 75-year-old Robert Ford, who was strolling along Front Street.
Ford's hat bore some wrinkles, according to the soldier's assessment, and his belt buckle looked too ornate for his rank.
The soldier enlisted the help of a Harrisburg police officer working at the event, who was a Marine, and together, they accused Ford of being a fraud.
"He's not a real Marine!" the officer shouted to the crowd gathered for the PennLive/Patriot-News Artsfest of Greater Harrisburg. "Stolen valor!"
"I was humiliated," said Ford, of Marysville.
The only problem is Ford did serve in the Marines from 1958 to 1964. He earned the rank of lance corporal.
"He's as legit as you can get," said Doug Sterner, a Vietnam veteran and archivist from Pueblo, Colo., who is nationally recognized for detecting military fraud. Sterner confirmed Ford's military service this week through Headquarters Marine Corps.
The incident in Harrisburg, Sterner said, represents a troubling trend across the country of veterans becoming vigilantes.
Veterans are angry, Sterner said, after a federal law about "stolen valor," was struck down in 2012 and a meeker version passed in its place. Under the new law, few cases are being investigated or prosecuted against people who falsely claim military awards or service, Sterner said.
"The veteran community, frustrated and upset, is saying, 'OK. We'll do it ourselves,' " Sterner said. "But what it's leading to is a bunch of hot heads. ... There's a lot of bullying going on in the community now. It's almost like hunting game, going out looking for phonies."
In many cases, veterans or others who spot inconsistences are rewarded for their efforts. In Pennsylvania alone, people outed Jim Moats, of Newville, for his fake Navy Seal story; Brian Khan, of Harrisburg, for pretending to be a Marine; and Mark Kauffman, a veteran who's disabled status became an issue in March.
B.G. "Jug" Burkett, a Dallas-area Vietnam veteran who wrote a book entitled, "Stolen Valor," understands why people get upset at fakes who try to gain respect by claiming they served "shoulder to shoulder with those who gave their lives for America."
Burkett has helped in numerous prosecutions of fake military war heroes. But he said what happened in Harrisburg was a shame.
"I think that cop was out of line, approaching him like that with no evidence," Burkett said. "This is an older guy and maybe they didn't dress the same way 50 years ago."
Sterner agreed.
"I'd rather see a dozen phonies get kudos they don't deserve than besmirch the reputation of one innocent veteran," he said. "Even if I see something totally outlandish, I'm not going to jump. ... You don't just go up and confront people."
Ford asked to file a complaint with the Harrisburg Police Department over the way the officer, Detective John O'Connor, treated him. Capt. Deric Moody promised an investigation.
But as of Wednesday night, no one had contacted Ford or apologized to him. Moody told PennLive he still was trying to confirm Ford's military status.
Anthony Flaynik, the commandant of the local detachment of the Marine Corps League, said his group was doing their own investigation into the police department's actions.
"He gives up his time volunteering for honor guard for veteran funerals every three weeks," Flaynik said of Ford. "He comes out in the rain, shine, hot, cold. We need to do what we can to help him."
The incident
Ford has a tradition on Memorial Day. He dons his dress blue uniform, visits the cemetery, plays "Taps" on his bugle in a wreath-laying ceremony along the Susquehanna River, then attends Artsfest, where he looks for presents for his granddaughter.
But this year, as he was perusing the artware, a uniformed officer approached along with a man in civilian clothes.
The officer asked for Ford's unit and his military occupation specialty.
Ford answered and noted he specialized in machine guns, rockets and flame-throwers.
"I have to investigate for 'stolen valor,' " the officer said, which Ford said he found insulting.
Still, Ford let it pass and recommended the officer attend the wreath-laying ceremony next year. The officer simply walked away.
Ford returned to shopping, but 10 minutes later was again confronted by the officer in front of The Patriot-News booth.
"Where did you go to boot camp?" the officer said.
Ford said he couldn't figure out why the officer was questioning his service. Ford hadn't claimed any war heroics and his uniform bore no combat medals.
"What am I trying to do?" Ford said. "Impersonate a lance corporal who never served in combat?"
Things quickly escalated.
"What is your problem?" Ford asked.
The officer reiterated his demand.
Fed up, Ford told the officer to leave him alone in terms that contained an expletive.
That's when the officer started shouting, Ford said.
"You don't know where you went to boot camp," the officer said, according to Ford. "You aren't a Marine."
Ford said the soldier joined in, shouting: "Stolen Valor! This man is a fake!"
Embarrassed, Ford slinked away, but the men followed. When Ford stopped and turned to face them, Ford said the officer waved his hand over his holstered weapon as if he were ready to draw it on Ford.
"I was getting very nervous," Ford said. "I was afraid to reach for my wallet."
A woman working at The Patriot-News booth, who did not want her name published, confirmed Ford's account that the officer followed Ford and yelled that Ford wasn't a Marine.
The woman said the ordeal lasted about 10 to 15 minutes. She described the officer as being antagonistic and said she believed the officer was trying to get Ford to make a move.
Eventually, Ford did retrieve his wallet to show the officer his U.S. Veterans Affairs card. The officer motioned for the soldier to examine it, Ford said.
The soldier concluded that Ford's VA card was a "fake and that anybody can print those out," Ford said.
That's when Ford asked for the officer's supervisor. Ford walked a block or so to meet Capt. Moody, with the officer and soldier trailing.
Moody talked to Ford and inspected his identification cards by holding them up in the air and tilting them, drawing more attention and embarrassing Ford.
The kerfuffle attracted a television news crew.
"People were gawking at the scene," Ford said. "People must have been thinking this was really bad."
Eventually, Moody, also a Marine, reportedly told Ford "it would be best if he just left, to avoid the camera and all the people that were now watching."
Ford refused. He merged back in with the crowd, but noticed the officer lurking nearby, arms folded with his eyes fixed on Ford. Ford said he was disappointed Moody had not instructed the officer to move on.
Ford had hoped Moody would set things right. Instead, Ford said he felt even worse after the encounter.
"I felt their attitude was like, 'So what.' " Ford said. "I've spent almost my whole life working on veterans' issues."
Ford said he has launched programs to help veterans, is active in his local Marine Corp League and occasionally contributes letters about veterans' issues to the Opinion section of The Patriot-News.
Moody said the officer didn't curse nor put his hands on Ford so the incident didn't rise to the level of an internal affairs investigation. Instead, Moody said he was conducting an informal review of the incident.
"There were inconsistencies in his uniform," Moody said of Ford. "If an apology is due, then an apology is due."
Get evidence first
Experts who advocate for veterans and root out military fraud say public humiliation is not the way to go when one suspects something askew about a military uniform.
Older soldiers can forget the proper order of ribbons, but "that doesn't mean they're a phony," said Sterner, who runs a website called Home for Heroes. "Even real heroes make mistakes."
Sterner has accumulated a database of top military war medals as one method to guard against fraudulent claims.
Even with Sterner's background, he said he has only confronted one person in 15 years over "stolen valor" and that's because he knew the names of all the medal recipients for a particular award being claimed.
Sterner recommended that people concerned with military fraud should simply take down a person's information and "get their ducks in a row."
"I'm not going to confront or accost someone," Sterner said. "I'm going to get my evidence first."
Burkett, who lectures FBI agents and government-fraud investigators, advises on his website how people can check their suspicions by requesting the actual military records.
"I'm just surprised at this cop," Burkett said. "Most of the time, a real vet would not do that. ... People should ask questions first, then go check things out later."
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/harrisburg_artsfest_veteran_st.html#incart_m-rpt-2
--
An Army soldier attending Artsfest on Memorial Day thought something was fishy with the Marine uniform worn by 75-year-old Robert Ford, who was strolling along Front Street.
Ford's hat bore some wrinkles, according to the soldier's assessment, and his belt buckle looked too ornate for his rank.
The soldier enlisted the help of a Harrisburg police officer working at the event, who was a Marine, and together, they accused Ford of being a fraud.
"He's not a real Marine!" the officer shouted to the crowd gathered for the PennLive/Patriot-News Artsfest of Greater Harrisburg. "Stolen valor!"
"I was humiliated," said Ford, of Marysville.
The only problem is Ford did serve in the Marines from 1958 to 1964. He earned the rank of lance corporal.
"He's as legit as you can get," said Doug Sterner, a Vietnam veteran and archivist from Pueblo, Colo., who is nationally recognized for detecting military fraud. Sterner confirmed Ford's military service this week through Headquarters Marine Corps.
The incident in Harrisburg, Sterner said, represents a troubling trend across the country of veterans becoming vigilantes.
Veterans are angry, Sterner said, after a federal law about "stolen valor," was struck down in 2012 and a meeker version passed in its place. Under the new law, few cases are being investigated or prosecuted against people who falsely claim military awards or service, Sterner said.
"The veteran community, frustrated and upset, is saying, 'OK. We'll do it ourselves,' " Sterner said. "But what it's leading to is a bunch of hot heads. ... There's a lot of bullying going on in the community now. It's almost like hunting game, going out looking for phonies."
In many cases, veterans or others who spot inconsistences are rewarded for their efforts. In Pennsylvania alone, people outed Jim Moats, of Newville, for his fake Navy Seal story; Brian Khan, of Harrisburg, for pretending to be a Marine; and Mark Kauffman, a veteran who's disabled status became an issue in March.
B.G. "Jug" Burkett, a Dallas-area Vietnam veteran who wrote a book entitled, "Stolen Valor," understands why people get upset at fakes who try to gain respect by claiming they served "shoulder to shoulder with those who gave their lives for America."
Burkett has helped in numerous prosecutions of fake military war heroes. But he said what happened in Harrisburg was a shame.
"I think that cop was out of line, approaching him like that with no evidence," Burkett said. "This is an older guy and maybe they didn't dress the same way 50 years ago."
Sterner agreed.
"I'd rather see a dozen phonies get kudos they don't deserve than besmirch the reputation of one innocent veteran," he said. "Even if I see something totally outlandish, I'm not going to jump. ... You don't just go up and confront people."
Ford asked to file a complaint with the Harrisburg Police Department over the way the officer, Detective John O'Connor, treated him. Capt. Deric Moody promised an investigation.
But as of Wednesday night, no one had contacted Ford or apologized to him. Moody told PennLive he still was trying to confirm Ford's military status.
Anthony Flaynik, the commandant of the local detachment of the Marine Corps League, said his group was doing their own investigation into the police department's actions.
"He gives up his time volunteering for honor guard for veteran funerals every three weeks," Flaynik said of Ford. "He comes out in the rain, shine, hot, cold. We need to do what we can to help him."
The incident
Ford has a tradition on Memorial Day. He dons his dress blue uniform, visits the cemetery, plays "Taps" on his bugle in a wreath-laying ceremony along the Susquehanna River, then attends Artsfest, where he looks for presents for his granddaughter.
But this year, as he was perusing the artware, a uniformed officer approached along with a man in civilian clothes.
The officer asked for Ford's unit and his military occupation specialty.
Ford answered and noted he specialized in machine guns, rockets and flame-throwers.
"I have to investigate for 'stolen valor,' " the officer said, which Ford said he found insulting.
Still, Ford let it pass and recommended the officer attend the wreath-laying ceremony next year. The officer simply walked away.
Ford returned to shopping, but 10 minutes later was again confronted by the officer in front of The Patriot-News booth.
"Where did you go to boot camp?" the officer said.
Ford said he couldn't figure out why the officer was questioning his service. Ford hadn't claimed any war heroics and his uniform bore no combat medals.
"What am I trying to do?" Ford said. "Impersonate a lance corporal who never served in combat?"
Things quickly escalated.
"What is your problem?" Ford asked.
The officer reiterated his demand.
Fed up, Ford told the officer to leave him alone in terms that contained an expletive.
That's when the officer started shouting, Ford said.
"You don't know where you went to boot camp," the officer said, according to Ford. "You aren't a Marine."
Ford said the soldier joined in, shouting: "Stolen Valor! This man is a fake!"
Embarrassed, Ford slinked away, but the men followed. When Ford stopped and turned to face them, Ford said the officer waved his hand over his holstered weapon as if he were ready to draw it on Ford.
"I was getting very nervous," Ford said. "I was afraid to reach for my wallet."
A woman working at The Patriot-News booth, who did not want her name published, confirmed Ford's account that the officer followed Ford and yelled that Ford wasn't a Marine.
The woman said the ordeal lasted about 10 to 15 minutes. She described the officer as being antagonistic and said she believed the officer was trying to get Ford to make a move.
Eventually, Ford did retrieve his wallet to show the officer his U.S. Veterans Affairs card. The officer motioned for the soldier to examine it, Ford said.
The soldier concluded that Ford's VA card was a "fake and that anybody can print those out," Ford said.
That's when Ford asked for the officer's supervisor. Ford walked a block or so to meet Capt. Moody, with the officer and soldier trailing.
Moody talked to Ford and inspected his identification cards by holding them up in the air and tilting them, drawing more attention and embarrassing Ford.
The kerfuffle attracted a television news crew.
"People were gawking at the scene," Ford said. "People must have been thinking this was really bad."
Eventually, Moody, also a Marine, reportedly told Ford "it would be best if he just left, to avoid the camera and all the people that were now watching."
Ford refused. He merged back in with the crowd, but noticed the officer lurking nearby, arms folded with his eyes fixed on Ford. Ford said he was disappointed Moody had not instructed the officer to move on.
Ford had hoped Moody would set things right. Instead, Ford said he felt even worse after the encounter.
"I felt their attitude was like, 'So what.' " Ford said. "I've spent almost my whole life working on veterans' issues."
Ford said he has launched programs to help veterans, is active in his local Marine Corp League and occasionally contributes letters about veterans' issues to the Opinion section of The Patriot-News.
Moody said the officer didn't curse nor put his hands on Ford so the incident didn't rise to the level of an internal affairs investigation. Instead, Moody said he was conducting an informal review of the incident.
"There were inconsistencies in his uniform," Moody said of Ford. "If an apology is due, then an apology is due."
Get evidence first
Experts who advocate for veterans and root out military fraud say public humiliation is not the way to go when one suspects something askew about a military uniform.
Older soldiers can forget the proper order of ribbons, but "that doesn't mean they're a phony," said Sterner, who runs a website called Home for Heroes. "Even real heroes make mistakes."
Sterner has accumulated a database of top military war medals as one method to guard against fraudulent claims.
Even with Sterner's background, he said he has only confronted one person in 15 years over "stolen valor" and that's because he knew the names of all the medal recipients for a particular award being claimed.
Sterner recommended that people concerned with military fraud should simply take down a person's information and "get their ducks in a row."
"I'm not going to confront or accost someone," Sterner said. "I'm going to get my evidence first."
Burkett, who lectures FBI agents and government-fraud investigators, advises on his website how people can check their suspicions by requesting the actual military records.
"I'm just surprised at this cop," Burkett said. "Most of the time, a real vet would not do that. ... People should ask questions first, then go check things out later."
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/harrisburg_artsfest_veteran_st.html#incart_m-rpt-2
Posted in these groups: 
Stolen Valor
Stolen Valor
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 147
Instead of wasting times spotting the fakes, we should spend more time focusing on the real troops. The fakes will eventually get what they deserve.
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Really? Regardless of the fact that the officer was flat out wrong on a factual basis. Mr. Ford is 75-years-old.
If a senior citizen had dementia (about half over the age of 85 do), and mistakenly thought they were a marine, what would be the harm? My America is one of compassion and respect for humanity. What's next? Are we going to start going after little boys who dress up as Superman?
Kudos to Mr. Ford for being able to still fit into his USMC uniform. It would take a lot of work on my part to get into my old service uniform. The officer, regrettably an army veteran, should take the stick out of his third point of contact!
If a senior citizen had dementia (about half over the age of 85 do), and mistakenly thought they were a marine, what would be the harm? My America is one of compassion and respect for humanity. What's next? Are we going to start going after little boys who dress up as Superman?
Kudos to Mr. Ford for being able to still fit into his USMC uniform. It would take a lot of work on my part to get into my old service uniform. The officer, regrettably an army veteran, should take the stick out of his third point of contact!
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SSG Robert Webster
1LT David Moeglein - Don't you mean, his "fourth point of contact"? Or we could ask him (the police officer or the Army Veteran) to quit patting himself on his "fifth point of contact"! AATW, Sir!
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1LT David Moeglein
SSG Robert Webster - You are absolutely right. Apparently my dementia got the best of me.
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SSG Robert Webster
1LT David Moeglein - After an incident like this one or the one in Charlotte, I think that a number of us become demented.
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Maybe the LEO needs some professionalism training...and the Marine as well.
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SSgt (Join to see)
I told the officers at the Penn Station that they need to go to a VA. To sit down with them (the older veteran) and see what this is all about. I did the same with the woman who took the flag from the ladies stepping on it and actually communicated by email in this case and I think I at least got their attention.. Hope it was good.. lol
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This is exactly why I always say that the veterans who get up in arms about this stuff are a bunch of idiots. This is not the first incident like this one, and it won't be the last. In the meantime, all these jackasses screaming about stolen valor will continue to just look like children having tantrums. "Stolen Valor!" - Translation: "I'm super special, and deserve all your adoration and praise, but this guy is stealing the attention away from me! WAAAAH"
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SGT Jerry Ericsson
Yep, just for shits and giggles, go to YouTube and do a search for Stolen Valor, there will be thousands of videos, and if you take the time to watch, some are, some aren't most are just plain stupid.
I always try to live by the Golden Rule, something ingrained in my mind by my father, who was a farmer, and one of the wisest men I ever knew.
I always try to live by the Golden Rule, something ingrained in my mind by my father, who was a farmer, and one of the wisest men I ever knew.
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Agreed. I had one Veteran call me out in the middle of a busy isle in Safeway. He was ranting and raving loudly at me until i pulled out my veteran id then he stood silent, shocked and embarrassed and sincerely apologized. I told him if you see someone in uniform and they dont seem to fit the persona, just wait and observe first. Check out the way they walk, how they hold themselves, check if their medals or patches are straight, aligned and in the correct spot on the uniform, if they are wearing one. If those curtain things are amiss chances are that they may be impersonators. Then approach them calmly and ask them a few questions. Such as "Are you a Veteran or Active Duty?", "What Branch and Division were or are you in?", "Where were or are you stationed?", "What was or is your rate?". If the answers dont jive or they struggle with answers then ask to see their id. If they cant provide one or say they dont have one then start verbally stomping their ass. Thats what I think at least.
I mean I hate fakes as much as the next Veteran but you also dont want to look like a fool in front of anyone, especially civilians who dont understand. Because then, to the civilians, you seem disrespectful and dishonorable and thats never a good thing.
I mean I hate fakes as much as the next Veteran but you also dont want to look like a fool in front of anyone, especially civilians who dont understand. Because then, to the civilians, you seem disrespectful and dishonorable and thats never a good thing.
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SR John Traphagan III
Quite possibly, but for me i feel that it civilians who impersonate a Veteran or Active Duty service member is down right being disrespectful, dishonorable, and in my opinion are no better than those damn flag stompers. I feel that it is disgustingly rude to you, me, and all of us who have put our lives aside for our country. Especially, for our fallen brothers and sisters. I don't know, I just dont like it.
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GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad
Didn't say I liked it SR John Traphagan III --- but I also don't like the idea of genuine military personnel, veterans, and retirees being challenged and asked to prove that they are, in fact, who they say they are.
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SGT Jerry Ericsson
You know I have this thing, if somebody starts giving me the 3rd degree, I am most likely to tell them to go get "sexually satisfied by their own organ" and to leave me the hell alone. This is a free nation, and I owe an explanation of my past to NO ONE, NO WHERE, NO TIME! Don't go asking me crap because it is none of your damn business!
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Glad you're back Wayne, we missed you!!
I read about this, very sad. They didn't seem to give this gentleman a break. This is like vigilantism gone wrong. I understand the concern but they should have at least checked out his story before attacking him. Social media needs to take a breath instead of fanning the flames that IMHO drove this situation. You can't ask one or 2 questions and then pounce.
I read about this, very sad. They didn't seem to give this gentleman a break. This is like vigilantism gone wrong. I understand the concern but they should have at least checked out his story before attacking him. Social media needs to take a breath instead of fanning the flames that IMHO drove this situation. You can't ask one or 2 questions and then pounce.
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GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad
Thanks MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca! I'm still overseas (for another week) but am finding RP a welcome respite from the daily activities.
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It sounds like a pair of mental giants instigated an incident which has led to an instance of "Being a cop means I don't have to say I'm sorry."
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/harrisburg_artsfest_veteran_st.html#incart_m-rpt-2
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/harrisburg_artsfest_veteran_st.html#incart_m-rpt-2
Harrisburg police officer wrongly accuses veteran, 75, of 'stolen valor'
Robert D. Ford, of Marysville, served in the Marines beginning in 1958. He has remained active in veterans issues since his honorable discharge in 1964. He was shocked when a Harrisburg police officer called him a "fake" at ArtsFest on Memorial Day. PennLive confirmed his military service.
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I cannot believe what those two marines were thinking. They need to publicaly apologize to that veteran and they need to be punished. If I was in that situation and they did that to me, I would tell them to MIMD their own business. A VA card cannot be faked. Those two marines need to lose their god complex and apologize like any fellow veteran would. It just makes me sick. I am so sorry that veteran was treated like that. Most of my veteran friends are very humble and would have simply shook his hand and thanked him for his service. This story really makes me mad. I wish I was there!!!!!!!!
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CDR Michael Goldschmidt
Just to me fair and accurate, Jason, one (the cop) was a Marine, and the other was a soldier.
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1SG Michael Blount
@CDR Michael goldschmidt - doesn't matter. the cop and civilian were both in the wrong this time
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This is the definite problem with calling these people out...
And why it is so so so so so so important to get your evidence together and lined up before you call someone out.
That's why I tend to stick with reputable Stolen Valor investigators like Guardian of Valor
http://guardianofvalor.com/
And why it is so so so so so so important to get your evidence together and lined up before you call someone out.
That's why I tend to stick with reputable Stolen Valor investigators like Guardian of Valor
http://guardianofvalor.com/
Outing those who Steal Valor from those that earned it.
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
Great point. These folks research claims before acting, and generally with overwhelming proof. This stolen valor vigilantism is going to get out of hand and one day a lot worse could happen.
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SSgt (Join to see)
MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca Absolutely, sir. Things are already getting to that point now. Perfect example is that female Army Captain who was the CO of an infantry company in Iraq. She took some serious death threats and she was not lying. That is WAY past the line and should never have happened.
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That is why you should approach any situation with professionalism. If you're wrong, you didn't make a scene or embarrass yourself or anyone else, much less the service.
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