Posted on May 9, 2016
SGT Nia Chiaraluce
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This question was brought to me recently. A concerned peer is just now finding out about the NCOER appeal process. Their concern is the counseling dates were falsified giving the individual no time to rehabilitate from a 4/4 rating. Also, to clarify it's not just the counseling dates in question. What is the level of proof needed etc.? I personally have not dealt with this type of situation, but want to help them out the best I can without just sending them to the HRC website.
Posted in these groups: Leadership abstract 007 Leadership02465838216ea014750f6a70670013dd c0 34 4761 2809 s561x327 Senior Leaders1efa5058 NCOER
Edited >1 y ago
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1SG Section Sergeant
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Actually, if you read the regulation, a signature is not required by a counseled Soldier on a 4856. The 4856 is merely a record that a conversation took place. The counseled Soldier can refuse to sign however, it is in his/her best interest to just mark disagree and write a rebuttal and get a copy of the counseling statement. If they refuse to sign it is recommended the counselor get a witness to make a statement on the 4856 that they witnessed the counseling session.
See, its not nice to start out a conversation with "wrong" SSG Penn.
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SSG Infantryman
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All I have to say is wow. A yes I challenged one and they had to rewrite. It wasn't bad but it wasn't the truth
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MSG Instructor/Writer
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That NCOER should have never made it to HRC
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MSG Pat Colby
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Never sign a blank form. I had Senior Rater (MAJ) that got pissed at me because I was looking out for Troops and called him out on several occasions when he was wrong. He attempted to put the comment "Needs to better adhere to the Chain of Command." I took that NCOER and delivered it to his rater, the COL Commander. She gave his sorry ass a sample of what his OER would look like if he messed with me.

No appeal required. Everybody answers to somebody.
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SSG Warren Armitage
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He can appeal but the best thing to do is read the regulations and get with the personnel section. They would be the ones to get with
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SSG Edward Geer
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I had a successful appeal to an adverse NCOER. My appeal was for derogatory bullets (i.e.: Disobeying orders and failing to enforce unit standards, failure to perform duties in the field as the platoon sergeant,etc), dates of the NCOER (90 days after my reassignment to Bde S3, Who were the Rater (departed 120 days before end date, Senior Rater (less then 90 days) and Reviewer (less then 30 days).

If the NCOER has been signed the only appeal will be at DA HRC.

KEY TO A SUCCESSFUL Appeal (based on my personal experience)
1. Read the AR covering a NCOER Appeal.
2. Follow the steps listed to do in submitting an Appeal.
3. Obtain Documents, letter of witnesses supporting the appeal, etc.
4. Review and proof every document, letter, etc being submitted

Here's some of the stuff I did with my appeal.

1. Disobeying orders and failing to enforce unit standards

Provided a copy of the Counseling form that said I disobeyed orders and failed to enforce unit standards. Provided an extract from AR 670-1 and Post/ Division Reg. that showed the order was in direct violation of Army and Divisional Reg. Obtain letters from both of my Section Ldrs that supported my claim.

2. failure to perform duties in the field as the platoon sergeant,etc),

Provided a copy of my Awards citation for an ARCOM for the FTX mentioned in the NCOER. Obtained a Letter of Endorsement/ support from the Actual Bn. Cdr. for the time frame for the NCOER.

3. dates of the NCOER (90 days after my reassignment to Bde S3, Who were the Rater (departed 120 days before end date, Senior Rater (less then 90 days) and Reviewer (less then 30 days).

Submitted a copy of my reassignment orders. Submitted a copy of the reassignment orders for the Rater. Provided copies of the Orders and Assumption of COmmand for the Senior Rater and Reviewer.
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SSgt Kevin Craig
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Might want to send them in the direction of the Area Defense Counsil. Falsifying records is a huge deal.
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SFC Electronic Maintenance Supervisor
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I'm going to try to be brief on this NCOER. First of all, any "No" bullets on the front of the NCOER and "Needs Improvement" on the back HAVE to be justified with counselings. I was forced to write a 4/5 NCOER for a SGT and for every instance above I had a counseling attached and the draft I submitted was tabbed with see counseling dated "so and so" and attachment "whatever". To be fair and impartial I also included everything the SGT did well during the rated period. My bullets were also detailed enough to justify and make sense of what was stated. Normally the appeal process isn't all that great for the NCO. Even if you are justified in your appeal, the normal process is for HRC to black out that portion. Also, you can only appeal clearly erroneous entries and the burden of proof is on you. Looking at that NCOER, the front page does not concur with what is on the back page. Just from looking at it, I get the impression that it is unprofessional and personal. IJS Sorry, I guess I got too long winded.
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SGM Military Police
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If the NCOER has not been placed in OMPF the soldier can request a commanders inquiry to resolve the the issue. If uploaded keep in mind the soldiers signature validates all administration information. The soldier can appeal once uploaded but will have to provide the evidence.
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MSG David Smoak
MSG David Smoak
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I like the Commander's Inquiry process also, as long as the command is not part of the problem! For this E5 it does sound like a conflict at the platoon level and hopefully the leadership can get in and find out if it's a junior NCO that needs some mentorship/rehab transfer or maybe the NCOER reflects an accurate picture of someone that needs to be a civilian!
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SGM Military Police
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MSG David Smoak - all great points.
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SGT Jeremiah B.
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And this is why I kept copies of EVERYTHING, including signed counseling notices.
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