Posted on May 9, 2016
SGT Nia Chiaraluce
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This question was brought to me recently. A concerned peer is just now finding out about the NCOER appeal process. Their concern is the counseling dates were falsified giving the individual no time to rehabilitate from a 4/4 rating. Also, to clarify it's not just the counseling dates in question. What is the level of proof needed etc.? I personally have not dealt with this type of situation, but want to help them out the best I can without just sending them to the HRC website.
Posted in these groups: Leadership abstract 007 Leadership02465838216ea014750f6a70670013dd c0 34 4761 2809 s561x327 Senior Leaders1efa5058 NCOER
Edited >1 y ago
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Responses: 130
SSG Operations Ncoic
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Well question 1 is, was he counseled? If not, there's no proof and therefore must receive at least a success, 3/3, fully capable. If the first doesn't care enough to counsel it's their fault, appeal on that basis. Part 2: this should have been kicked back from the examiner, AR 623-3 states substantial comments must justify a needs improvement, and also it's written incorrectly. There should be a lowercase "o" with a space before each bullet. Whoever wrote this needs to be QMP now
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SFC Robert Bower
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As a retired SFC I can say, there's alot of this garbage out there. It's a shame the reviewer let it go!
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SFC Robert Bower
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I have and,,,, A GARBAGE LEADER WROTE THIS GARBAGE NCOER!
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CSM Command Sergeant Major
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The picture of the NCOER is not legit. It doesn't follow procedure at all so I'm assuming this is not the actual NCOER we're looking at. Counseling dates not being the actual day you sat down with the rater is not cause for appeal. Lack of counseling is not likely to overturn the NCOER. How many times do you need to be counseled not to leave your weapon unsecure? If you lost your weapon last week but retained it this week, are you now exceeding the standard and being fully rehabilitated? NCOERs that had successful appeals are removed from your record and a memo goes in its place.
To prepare the appeal, get some third party statements that may refute the facts recorded in the NCOER. Get copies of the rating scheme during that period to ensure rating chain was legitimate.
We recently had a SSG in our BN who was arrested for DUI. Through the court process he received treatment to plead to a lesser charge. Just because the court adjudicated it this way does not mean you can't write on his NCOER that he drove drunk. He tried to appeal because he wasn't convicted but was unsuccessful because he did indeed drive drunk.
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SGT Nia Chiaraluce
SGT Nia Chiaraluce
>1 y
I promise this is a very real NCOER. We are starting the appeal process now.
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CSM Command Sergeant Major
CSM (Join to see)
>1 y
How did it get past HRC. It has glaring procedural errors.
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CSM Command Sergeant Major
CSM (Join to see)
>1 y
Was that a working copy?
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CPT Signal Officer
CPT (Join to see)
>1 y
It has to be a draft. It literally says, "Serves as Team Leader for (insert unit)".
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CSM Mark Gerecht
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Last item is we don't have all the facts.
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CSM Mark Gerecht
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SGT have them review AR 623-3 Chapter 4. And DA PAM 623-3 Chapter. Then check out our website ASKTOP.net. Search falsifying counseling dates. Or evaluations. There are several post related to the issue. As long as the Soldier did not sign the report they have a good chance
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SSG Ncoic
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I've been fortunate enough to have decent leadership that did not falsify my records. I am happy to say that. I hope it continues for the 6 more years 'till I retire.
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CW2 Information Services Technician
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Edited >1 y ago
There is nothing wrong with this NCOER. There are no grammatical errors in the writing and the bullets are clear and concise. Stop thinking that $10 words need to be used to write an accurate NCOER. Also, the writer doesn't need to write anything for a success and a needs improvement just needs to be justified. This NCO needs to be less concerned about how well the bullets were written and more concerned about what they can do to improve themselves.

In addition, lets not bash this NCO for having the courage to accurately evaluate a substandard NCO and be thankful that there are still NCOs out there willing to do their job. I would like to shake the hand of the person who wrote this.
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SFC Rich Goldstein
SFC Rich Goldstein
>1 y
Look again. There are plenty of errors with the NCOER.
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SSG Budget Analyst
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List 3 different duty positions in which the rated NCO could best serve the Army at the current or next grade: Recruiter LOL sounds right
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SGT Nia Chiaraluce
SGT Nia Chiaraluce
>1 y
I'm telling you this is one of the worst I have ever seen. The bullets literally contradict themselves.
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SFC S4 Logistics Clerk
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Good or bad NCOER, this doesn't even qualify for Review! There is no way S-1 or anyone in the higher chain can let this pass. There's not even counseling dates for performance and standards! If it hits HRC this will be turned around so quick and someone in S-1/G-1 will probably get a phone call!
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