Posted on May 9, 2016
SGT Nia Chiaraluce
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This question was brought to me recently. A concerned peer is just now finding out about the NCOER appeal process. Their concern is the counseling dates were falsified giving the individual no time to rehabilitate from a 4/4 rating. Also, to clarify it's not just the counseling dates in question. What is the level of proof needed etc.? I personally have not dealt with this type of situation, but want to help them out the best I can without just sending them to the HRC website.
Posted in these groups: Leadership abstract 007 Leadership02465838216ea014750f6a70670013dd c0 34 4761 2809 s561x327 Senior Leaders1efa5058 NCOER
Edited >1 y ago
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Responses: 130
PO3 Carlston Solar
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Welfare of two? Hell as a E4 I had to section leader for like 300 awaiting sub school students. That looks very 3.0 vanilla
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SPC Marshall Hancock
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It's kind of hard to respond considering this NCOER isn't complete. From what is shown, the admin data has not been completed, it's not signed. The bullets on the back are not in the correct format. It's 25U2O not 25U20. The 3 positions the SM could best serve the Army (Section Chief, AIT instructor, and Recruiter) do not reflect the statement 'unsure of future leadership potential of this NCO.' APFT date is missing. Army Values were all checked yes with comment 'learns from mistakes' contradicts 'failed to take responsibility for own actions.' This NCOER wouldn't have made it past a 1SG, much less a CSM review. I worked in S-1 reviewing NCOERs for years. I wouldn't have sent this to the CSM for fear of getting my you know what chewed out for wasting his time. Plus he would have lit up the 1SG for sending up some garbage like this.
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SGT Nia Chiaraluce
SGT Nia Chiaraluce
>1 y
I removed all admin data for a reason, but it did make it all the way through HRC.
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SSG Red Leader
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So yeah. Got it. There isn't a lot of quantifiable info. Do yall really want your buddies eval to state in more graphic detail about why he deserved a 4\4?!
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SCPO John-florida Killin
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What's ALC, as in "Send to ALC when NCO is ready." If this is some kind of leadership school, don't waste your time or money.
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SSG Ayron Hirschler
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First of all, this has to be the WEAKEST NCOER ever written. The "Values" certainly do not match the critically short "bulleted" comments on the back. Second, if you are a senior NCO that can not come up with more than one bullet for a comment, then you shouldn't be writing the NCOER in the first place and probably need to be trained and retrained on the very basics of NCOER writing. This looks to me like a last minute pencil whip on a soldier (apparently, not too high speed) that the leadership has given up on or is too lazy to pull make right. If this NCO is debating falsification of the counseling dates and not his/her conduct, I think we all know the bottom line here. I hate to be critical but it feels like a shit bag NCO trying to wiggle his way out of getting kicked out eventually. We have all dealt with the same kind... buck up, shut up, and do your job!!!
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SGT Nia Chiaraluce
SGT Nia Chiaraluce
>1 y
The counseling dates weren't the only things falsified
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CW2 Information Services Technician
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I don't know how, but my comment seems to have been deleted.

Other than the values not matching the ratings, I think this is a solid NCOER. The writer was clear and concise. I respect that this leader had the courage rate this mess of a sergeant accurately.
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SGT Nia Chiaraluce
SGT Nia Chiaraluce
>1 y
I did not delete it I am not an admin. I know that I appreciate all comments made about my question. That's what these forums are for.
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SSG Cannon Crew Member
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
Seriously? That NCOER is disgusting. For a subpar NCO you WOULD think more evidence and detail would be present with SUPPORTING documentation. A SOLID NCOER? Negative. A lazy leader? Absolutely.

my 2 cents.
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MSG Military To Military (M2 M) Ncoic
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The DA PAM 623-3 provides the framework for an appeal. He needs to involve career management officials, S1, and legal services (JAG and IG). The clock is ticking on substantive appeals. The redress program can be effective, but the appeal is on the Soldier. The Soldier is liable for producing evidence, obtaining statements and submitting the packet. The level of proof can be easy as having the leader who counseled the Soldier produce the counseling. Please keep in mind that the appeal is seeking to right an unjustified statements, they are not their to "change minds".
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CPT Signal Officer
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Wonder where the CSM was during this travesty.
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SGT Nia Chiaraluce
SGT Nia Chiaraluce
>1 y
Deployed it was on a Rear Detachment.
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SFC Shane Funkhouser
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Well at least someone else wrote it. I had to write my own my last 5 years in as well as my own awards.
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SFC Paralegal Specialist
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I mean where are all the "o"'s before the bullets, pure amateur
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