Posted on May 9, 2016
SGT Nia Chiaraluce
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This question was brought to me recently. A concerned peer is just now finding out about the NCOER appeal process. Their concern is the counseling dates were falsified giving the individual no time to rehabilitate from a 4/4 rating. Also, to clarify it's not just the counseling dates in question. What is the level of proof needed etc.? I personally have not dealt with this type of situation, but want to help them out the best I can without just sending them to the HRC website.
Posted in these groups: Leadership abstract 007 Leadership02465838216ea014750f6a70670013dd c0 34 4761 2809 s561x327 Senior Leaders1efa5058 NCOER
Edited >1 y ago
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SGM Operations Sergeant
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SGT Chiaraluce,
While the process is clearly outlined in AR 623-3, there are several things that bear consideration here:
Counseling is required, despite what is clearly a generally neglectful attitude. It is especially required when giving someone anything below a success. The incidents in question should have required a written counseling. Chapter 3 outlines the requirements in addition to the DA PAM. Please refer to AR 623-3, para 1-10 and 1-11 for an understanding of the required actions and limitations. There are steps that can be done to establish if the rating was justified, although typically the burden of proof would be on the rater, not the rated Soldier. An appeal through HRC must meet the guidelines in order to actually be considered, which essentially means that they have to be able to establish that the statements in the NCOER were materially inaccurate.
On another note, while I believe that the NCOER was poorly written and the Supervisor did a poor job in mentoring and developing his subordinate, the statements made in there seem to indicate someone who has a great deal of issues. Perhaps the best thing to do for the Soldier and the Unit would be to sit them down, as their peer, and be honest.
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MSG Chief Instructor
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First off, are there counselings to support the "NI" ratings? All "NI" have to have supporting documentation. So, for each comment on each block will have to have supporting counselings. If the rater can't produce proper documents, then they can't put the "NI" in there. The PSG should be catching this, but in my experience, NCOs don't know how to do NCOERs correctly. I'd go to the 1SG and bring up to his/her attention and "appeal" the NCOER.
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SFC Senior Mechanic
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I'm going to be "that guy" and direct you to the HRC website: https://www.hrc.army.mil/TAGD/Evaluation%20Appeals%20and%20Corrections
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CSM Thomas McGarry
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Was this NCOER ever signed by all concerned and submitted to HR Command? As stated by other I would want to see the counseling etc for all negative bullets. If this was submitted with out the concerned soldier's knowledge they have grounds for not only an appeal but the person who wrote this should be held accountable!
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SGT Nia Chiaraluce
SGT Nia Chiaraluce
>1 y
Yes, it was submitted through without their knowledge CSM McGarry they were under the impression they were just verifying the administrative portion. Was informed not to worry about it at a different unit so didn't. Now with the QMPs, being up for promotion and wanting a broadening assignment is being told by branch to appeal even though it's very old(over 5 years). Mind you this was also submitted after the SM filed an IG complaint against the rater that rated them.
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CSM Thomas McGarry
CSM Thomas McGarry
>1 y
I had roughly the same thing happen at a Unit I was a 1st Sgt. in. The soldier discovered it when they were putting their promotion packet together and found some unauthorized changes to the copy submitted to HRC. We resolved this by putting in a change but this can be a very serious matter if it was done without the soldiers knowledge.
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MSgt Fred Gottshalk
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Several things that I learned while in the US Military, and then as a DOD civilian.......KEEP RECORDS, especially for the dates that were falsified (locate friends or others that you have been with) take the ER directly to the signator. They should have kept a copy. As a DOD civilian, I actually had a previous eval CHANGED, a year later, in an attempt to discredit me. The Commander that signed the original, was not only appalled, but "O" club conversations got it straightened out very quickly. I thanked him for standing up to his Officer's code "honor and integrity". There are still many with honor and integrity. Always get, and keep, a copy of ANY official paperwork that has your name on it...
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SFC John George
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The individual must go through a Commanders Inquiry first. If this step is not followed expect the appeal to be shot down by big Army.
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SFC John George
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The individual must go through a Commander's Inquiry first. If this step is not followed more than likely the appeal will be shot down by big Army. Unfortunately, had the same thing happen to me, and found out the hard way....
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SSG Laird Peace
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As far as the dates being falsified, even the date of a verbal counseling can be used. However, for the specific negative bullet statements, those should have some kind of documentation behind them.
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SGT Nia Chiaraluce
SGT Nia Chiaraluce
>1 y
Completely agree.
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SMSgt Rj Seiler
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My first suggestion is to take it to A DC and see what they have to say about it. Secondly, if you do not get results there, I would make a formal compliant through the IG process.
Just my 2 cents
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1SG 1st Sergeant
1SG (Join to see)
>1 y
IG does not do involvement with OER's or NCOER's. The appeals process in AR 623-3 is the only way to solve a rated personnel evaluation.
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SMSgt Rj Seiler
SMSgt Rj Seiler
>1 y
1SG (Join to see) - thank you for educating me on the subject. It is extremely hard to judge whether or not a NCOER should be appealed. More times than not, the individual usually deserves the rating they received.
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SSG Military Police
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Have this NCO go to the legal office, they can help guide them through the AR and DA PAM for the appeal process as well as what is needed for submission. Legal can also assist with helping them out the appeal together and how to properly format and word it.
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