Posted on Mar 28, 2023
Has someone ever walked on to your property unannounced?
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My house is on less than a .25 acre, but still a fairly big lot for the nieghborhood. I happened to peak out the window and saw someone carrying a ladder into my completely fenced in backyard. They had to open my gate to get in there.
Naturally, I go out to confront them. Turns out to be a gentleman with AT&T installing internet for my neighbor. In so many words, he claims the pole is AT&T's property and he didn't have to knock on my door. No issue, just would have appreciated the knock on the door. I understand his job and many other jobs demand that people go through other people's backyards and that can't be easy or fun to do. The conversation was tense, so I asked if he needed help and he declined.
But, I wish he understood the situation a little better. I placed my 1911 in my waist before I went out. I just moved to this house a couple months ago and the city crime maps all show this neighborhood as having a high rate of property crimes, the surrounding neighbhorhoods as well. The violent crimes also occur on this side of town, and a friend of mine in local law enforcement mentioned a murder case that just popped up a couple weeks ago a few blocks down from me. I would have shot this man if he posed any threat to my children, who were just a few feet away inside my house, and I would have been completely within Kentucky's stand-your-ground laws as I understand them.
Maybe he did understand this but after so long on the job didn't care. Maybe he's had so many bad interactions he doesn't bother anymore. Who knows? Doesn't change the fact that he made himself a potential threat by opening my gate and walking into my backyard unanounced. Feels like a knock on the door should be company policy, for everyone's safety.
Naturally, I go out to confront them. Turns out to be a gentleman with AT&T installing internet for my neighbor. In so many words, he claims the pole is AT&T's property and he didn't have to knock on my door. No issue, just would have appreciated the knock on the door. I understand his job and many other jobs demand that people go through other people's backyards and that can't be easy or fun to do. The conversation was tense, so I asked if he needed help and he declined.
But, I wish he understood the situation a little better. I placed my 1911 in my waist before I went out. I just moved to this house a couple months ago and the city crime maps all show this neighborhood as having a high rate of property crimes, the surrounding neighbhorhoods as well. The violent crimes also occur on this side of town, and a friend of mine in local law enforcement mentioned a murder case that just popped up a couple weeks ago a few blocks down from me. I would have shot this man if he posed any threat to my children, who were just a few feet away inside my house, and I would have been completely within Kentucky's stand-your-ground laws as I understand them.
Maybe he did understand this but after so long on the job didn't care. Maybe he's had so many bad interactions he doesn't bother anymore. Who knows? Doesn't change the fact that he made himself a potential threat by opening my gate and walking into my backyard unanounced. Feels like a knock on the door should be company policy, for everyone's safety.
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Safety
Safety
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 8
It will depend on the wording of the easement agreement (pull our your deed ... there will usually be a clause in there ... if not, consult state law for an overarching one), but the key with utility companies and easements is usually "reasonable access"
What a utility can and can’t do depends a lot on the concept of “reasonableness.” The utility owns their equipment and has a reasonable right to access it, but you still own the land. This means that while the utility has a right to access its equipment, how it goes about that access is determined by the circumstances. That’s why utility workers don’t simply barge into your house to read the meters, but request access, and you can almost always schedule your meter readings with the utility if you want to.
On the other hand, if a problem threatens the safety of your community, utilities will act first and request permission later. In other words, accessing the property without permission in an emergency is reasonable.
Now, COULD and SHOULD are different things. While he might be allowed to gain access without permission (i.e., COULD), that doesn't mean he SHOULD do it without consulting you. If it was a meter read, that is one thing .. but someone walking into your yard with a ladder over one shoulder without knocking on your door? Recipe for (his) disaster.
What a utility can and can’t do depends a lot on the concept of “reasonableness.” The utility owns their equipment and has a reasonable right to access it, but you still own the land. This means that while the utility has a right to access its equipment, how it goes about that access is determined by the circumstances. That’s why utility workers don’t simply barge into your house to read the meters, but request access, and you can almost always schedule your meter readings with the utility if you want to.
On the other hand, if a problem threatens the safety of your community, utilities will act first and request permission later. In other words, accessing the property without permission in an emergency is reasonable.
Now, COULD and SHOULD are different things. While he might be allowed to gain access without permission (i.e., COULD), that doesn't mean he SHOULD do it without consulting you. If it was a meter read, that is one thing .. but someone walking into your yard with a ladder over one shoulder without knocking on your door? Recipe for (his) disaster.
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1LT (Join to see)
My point exactly. This employee did not consider what "should" have been done, from my point of view.
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I keep livestock (horses and goats) and poultry on a 160-acre farm. I do have a utility easement that runs through my paddock. Before I put the fields in livestock, I talked to the power company. There is a vehicle entrapment area at either end of the field. The power company has keys to their locks, and I have keys to my locks, both on the same chain. They make sure that both gates to the entrapment area are never open at the same time. In turn, if they give me a call that they need to work on the lines, I put the animals elsewhere. They have the number plus its posted on the gate. In 20+ years I've never had a problem.
I live in an area where summer tourists are everywhere. Despite the fact that I have "no trespassing" signs posted every 16 ft. I've found unknown and uninvited people in my paddocks, feeding the horses and goats, in my orchards picking fruit, in my fields picking vegetables and berries. I've found unknown and uninvited people in my duck run and chicken runs letting their young kids chase the birds. In every case they have to cross two fence lines to get to where they got. I wish I could say it was kids, but it wasn't. I also have some wooded acres on my farm, and I have to chase people who try to harvest firewood out all the time and during mushroom season the "shroomers" feel entitled to roam my woods and harvest my mushrooms. They aren't.
I've got 4 livestock guardian dogs. They've never bitten a human being. But when they are hauling ass out to tell you, "you don't belong here" you'd think they eat live humans for breakfast lunch and dinner. They are trained to get in a low crouch and growl once they get within 15-20 ft and then they herd your ass right back over the fence.
I live in an area where summer tourists are everywhere. Despite the fact that I have "no trespassing" signs posted every 16 ft. I've found unknown and uninvited people in my paddocks, feeding the horses and goats, in my orchards picking fruit, in my fields picking vegetables and berries. I've found unknown and uninvited people in my duck run and chicken runs letting their young kids chase the birds. In every case they have to cross two fence lines to get to where they got. I wish I could say it was kids, but it wasn't. I also have some wooded acres on my farm, and I have to chase people who try to harvest firewood out all the time and during mushroom season the "shroomers" feel entitled to roam my woods and harvest my mushrooms. They aren't.
I've got 4 livestock guardian dogs. They've never bitten a human being. But when they are hauling ass out to tell you, "you don't belong here" you'd think they eat live humans for breakfast lunch and dinner. They are trained to get in a low crouch and growl once they get within 15-20 ft and then they herd your ass right back over the fence.
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I live on about 10 acres outside o any municipal boundaries, I often answer my door armed.
I had one incident were a couple of guys in a beat up Pick Up truck showed up at the house early in the evening. The guy that was at the door claimed that this was the address he had for some sales item, then started to get a bit belligerent when I told him he had the wrong place. And my dog didn't like him, so that added to my caution. The 45 I had in small of my back came out to where he could see it I repeated what I told him earlier and informed him it was time to leave. He left.
The guy that really made me nervous was the one that stayed in the truck. If he had made any sudden moves that I would have interpreted as hostile, I would have emptied about half that magazine on his doors. If he was just reaching for a smoke, I would have to apologize.
To this day I am still convinced that these guys were looking for a place where no one was home or that they could strong arm rob if the family was home.
I had one incident were a couple of guys in a beat up Pick Up truck showed up at the house early in the evening. The guy that was at the door claimed that this was the address he had for some sales item, then started to get a bit belligerent when I told him he had the wrong place. And my dog didn't like him, so that added to my caution. The 45 I had in small of my back came out to where he could see it I repeated what I told him earlier and informed him it was time to leave. He left.
The guy that really made me nervous was the one that stayed in the truck. If he had made any sudden moves that I would have interpreted as hostile, I would have emptied about half that magazine on his doors. If he was just reaching for a smoke, I would have to apologize.
To this day I am still convinced that these guys were looking for a place where no one was home or that they could strong arm rob if the family was home.
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1LT (Join to see)
My wife likes to point out the responsibility of gun ownership. It is the main reason she is very uncomfortable carrying, despite being an 11-year Army veteran.
Like you said, the man could have just reached for some smokes, and if that did happen and you did shoot him, the responsibility for that action would have been on you. If we choose to carry the weapon, we also choose to carry the legal and moral responsibility.
Like you said, the man could have just reached for some smokes, and if that did happen and you did shoot him, the responsibility for that action would have been on you. If we choose to carry the weapon, we also choose to carry the legal and moral responsibility.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
1LT (Join to see) - like the saying here in Kentucky goes, it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. If you carry, there is always a fine line between justified and over reacting. In this case, I'm reasonably sure that I had the situation pegged for what would have happened if I hadn't been armed.
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