Posted on Feb 15, 2016
Have other Infantrymen have been awarded a Combat Action Badge (CAB) instead of the coveted Combat Infantry Badge (CIB)?
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As an infantry unit we were tasked with convoy escort. Iraq 2010-11. All 11B's who earned a Combat award received the CAB. For this mission/deployment we were told we were 00F's for the deployment thus no CIB's would be awarded. DD214's showed a 4A designator for reclassification training to support this. Just curious how many others saw this or experienced it outside our battalion.
Posted in these groups: 
11B: Infantryman
Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF)
Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) - Afghanistan
Badges
11B: Infantryman Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) - Afghanistan Badges
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 21
There are two key differences in the criteria between CAB and CIB. According to AR 600-8-22:
1) For CAB, one has to "be personally present and actively engaging or being engaged by the enemy"
2) For CIB, one has to be "[11B] assigned to an infantry unit during such time as the unit is engaged in active ground combat"
So there is a distinction between "being engaged by the enemy" (i.e. receiving IDF), and "engaging in active ground combat." You could argue that if you are just on the receiving end of an enemy activity, there are times when you weren't actively engaging in ground combat (i.e. you were asleep on a FOB and a mortar round landed near by). The difference may be grey is some situations, but clearly the criteria is not the same.
If you follow the regulation, there could be situations where 11B Soldiers assigned to an infantry unit may not qualify for the CIB because they were not "engaging in active ground combat", but were engaged in by the enemy (IDF, etc.). They could therefore possibly not qualify for EITHER the CIB or CAB, since 11B members in an infantry unit can't be awarded a CAB, and may not meet the higher criteria of a CIB.
In general, we know that despite this being the regulation, many people receive a CAB or a CIB with very relaxed interpretation of the reg, which dilutes the award unfortunately.
1) For CAB, one has to "be personally present and actively engaging or being engaged by the enemy"
2) For CIB, one has to be "[11B] assigned to an infantry unit during such time as the unit is engaged in active ground combat"
So there is a distinction between "being engaged by the enemy" (i.e. receiving IDF), and "engaging in active ground combat." You could argue that if you are just on the receiving end of an enemy activity, there are times when you weren't actively engaging in ground combat (i.e. you were asleep on a FOB and a mortar round landed near by). The difference may be grey is some situations, but clearly the criteria is not the same.
If you follow the regulation, there could be situations where 11B Soldiers assigned to an infantry unit may not qualify for the CIB because they were not "engaging in active ground combat", but were engaged in by the enemy (IDF, etc.). They could therefore possibly not qualify for EITHER the CIB or CAB, since 11B members in an infantry unit can't be awarded a CAB, and may not meet the higher criteria of a CIB.
In general, we know that despite this being the regulation, many people receive a CAB or a CIB with very relaxed interpretation of the reg, which dilutes the award unfortunately.
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SFC (Join to see)
There is no breakdown as to the classification of IEDs. Any contact with any IED, regardless of how the IED is initiated, is considered direct contact with the enemy. The only grey area that exists in the awarding of these is that which is created by S-1 or G-1 etc. AR 600-8-22 para 8-6 is very clear. If any ONE of the criteria is met the award is to be made. If not one is met the award will not be made. I also know PLENTY of soldiers who did not pull the trigger once and were awarded a CIB and justly so. Leadership in a gun fight is not necessarily pulling the trigger. Me directing 2 fire teams against an enemy is much more lethal than any amount of rounds I've put down range.
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SSG Nick Tramontano
Based on the above mentioned criteria and AR, I'd like to know how there are General officers (Patraeus was one) are awarded a CAB ? Maybe being in the officers' club or back at HQ and a mortar round went off in the next grid square.
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CPT (Join to see)
LTC Weiss is partially correct in his interpretation of the regulations. The regulations do not distinguish between command detonated or remote detonated IED’s. The distinction is meaningless in the context that the enemy emplaces the device and was actively seeking to engage you with it. The reason why you were not awarded the CIB is because your unit was tasked with an alternate overall mission other than ”closing with and destroying the enemy with direct fires.”
I earned my CIB as an enlisted soldier. I later went on to become an Armor Officer. I served as a PL during my second deployment to Iraq. My platoon was task organized to an Infantry Company in my Combined Arms BN. I had both Infantry and Armor soldiers in my platoon. My Infantry soldiers were fillers from IRR and all had their CIB’s. We were doing full-spectrum operations “ground combat.” We got into contact on several occasions. My Infantry soldiers got CAB’s along with my Armor guys. They couldn’t earn a second CIB (you only got one for GWOT) but they got a CAB. That is another way an Infantrtman can get their CAB. They were technically in an a 19K slot although attached to an Infantry Company doing the same thing their 11B brothers were doing. Go figure! But for the limit to one CIB for GWOT participation in AFH and/or Iraq, my 11B would have met the requirements.
I earned my CIB as an enlisted soldier. I later went on to become an Armor Officer. I served as a PL during my second deployment to Iraq. My platoon was task organized to an Infantry Company in my Combined Arms BN. I had both Infantry and Armor soldiers in my platoon. My Infantry soldiers were fillers from IRR and all had their CIB’s. We were doing full-spectrum operations “ground combat.” We got into contact on several occasions. My Infantry soldiers got CAB’s along with my Armor guys. They couldn’t earn a second CIB (you only got one for GWOT) but they got a CAB. That is another way an Infantrtman can get their CAB. They were technically in an a 19K slot although attached to an Infantry Company doing the same thing their 11B brothers were doing. Go figure! But for the limit to one CIB for GWOT participation in AFH and/or Iraq, my 11B would have met the requirements.
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I had guys that were Infantry volunteer back in 2007 to deploy with an Engineer BN. They received a CAB.
We had a convoy escort mission 2009-2010 in Iraq. I put in 10 or so guys for CIB's. They got them. We were in an Infantry BN, in an Infantry Para/Lin, in an Infantry UIC.
I've never heard of being recoded into a 00F. Sounds like a dickhead move by a soft skill MOS to thumb their nose at us.
We had a convoy escort mission 2009-2010 in Iraq. I put in 10 or so guys for CIB's. They got them. We were in an Infantry BN, in an Infantry Para/Lin, in an Infantry UIC.
I've never heard of being recoded into a 00F. Sounds like a dickhead move by a soft skill MOS to thumb their nose at us.
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I am well aware of the regulations on the subjects here. Convoy escort is widely viewed as a non infantry mission. This question is not a whine or a gripe. Just curious how often it happens. On a humorous note, I sure do get tired of explaining the CAB that accompanies my blue cord. Haha. 11th year as an 11B and have never had another MOS. It confuses folks sometimes.
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COL (Join to see)
It would have happened for every National Guard unit mobilized under a SECFOR Deployed Table of Organization and Equipment that used a 00F MOS for the Para/LIN. They way to have avoided that is for Mobilization Branch to build the DTOE with 11B PARA/LIN and for the individual mobilization orders to show the 11B mobilized as an 11B in an Infantry UIC or derivative UIC. Some Infantry units mobilized for SECFOR did just that, ensuring CIB award eligibility in case of "active ground combat". But non-infantry units mobilized with infantry fillers could not obviously do that.
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I know Infantrymen who did not leave the FOB, but were close to the incoming fire we received almost daily who received CIBs and yet I earned my CIB in repeated firefights while I was an Infantryman and a CAB during my first deployment to Iraq. Only difference between the two for my particular situation was that as an Infantryman, we stirred up conflict and as a logistics officer, the enemy just made a bad decision to attack us on our way to bring supplies, etc. In both cases, we were engaging the enemy. It can be difficult to choose which badge to be more proud of because I will always be Infantry at heart, but I served more time in combat as a logistics officer and commanded two logistics units in Afghanistan. Hard to put down the CAB when I have that much of a history with those who only qualified to earn it and not a CIB. Those in the Infantry with no frame of reference for any other side of the Army will definitely disagree with my perspective.
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SGM (Join to see)
CPT Jason Schullz, I have to disagree with your last statement. It is an assumption that others will disagree with your perspective. I served in Iraq as a 1SG and I had 11Bs that couldn't be awarded the CAB nor the EIB, but in the same token the non Infantry Soldiers was awarded CABs for receiving IDF from the enemy. The Infantry Soldiers were in the exact proximity as the non Infantry Soldiers and because of the policy/regulation that states "you must be actively engaging the enemy during ground combat and in the position to close within and destroy the enemy". It was unfair to those Soldiers and to have an award ceremony awarding the CAB to their non Infantry peers was like a slap in the face because the way the retarded regulation is written. I have always enforced the policies and regulations, but that is the only one I never ever understood and I question HRC how can you not be fair across the board and either award them a CIB or a CAB. The badges was earned because of combat operations either engaging or being engaged. I know so many Infantry Soldiers or former Soldiers that received their CIBs through blanket orders if their Combat Outpost, Forward Operating Base, etc, was engaged by the enemy, therefore, everyone was awarded the CIB if they were assigned to an Infantry unit during the engagement/attacks.
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Oh let's not get me started on this, my leadership failed on all awards in my first deployment. I was in the middle of my second deployment (11B) when I noticed the new orders records online. I received a CAB and another award I had no idea I was even in for was downgraded. My unit was disbanded (Guard unit) while I was on my 2nd deployment so I just fell into a unit when I got back. and of course I got no help correcting it. Funny thing, nobody knew I had deployed and when I returned. Lucky for me my weapons turned up or I would have been screwed. So I have a CAB, have never worn it and never will. From the information I was able to get, my 1SG just lumped all the members of the unit into a group and put us all in for a CAB instead of filing a separate award to the infantry soldiers in the group. The other award, a Bronze Star, downgraded for not meeting rank min of E7 or CPT. Funny thing was that the unit I was supporting in Afghanistan on my 4th deployment did the same thing, downgraded because of rank.
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SP5 Joel McDargh
Unfortunately, yours is not a rare case. Much the same thing happened in Vietnam due to Officers and NCOs not doing their jobs and doing proper documentation. Many soldiers records were sadly neglected or totally ignored. My 201 file simply states the unit I served in and nothing more, but then I pissed off my XO who made it a point to deny me rank, R&R, or any other privilege I should or might have been afforded. Best thing about it; I made it home in one piece.
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SSG Ricardo Marcial
SP5 Joel McDargh - First let me thank you for your service, and it appears we both suffered the same in regards to rank, except with me it was the SGM for life.
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Never saw it.. Makes no sense to me, even having Soldiers detached from our Infatry Battalion and attached to other elements specifically for such a mission when they had direct contact with the enemy they were awarded the CIB.
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A friend of mine was a member of LRS unit on the books as supply NCO, otherwise lifelong 11B, same patrols, same clearing houses, CAB.
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MAJ (Join to see)
As in duties or para/line#...if it's a retorical or sarcastic question I am unsure of the direction it's heading.
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I know it happens. A driver for someone on Division or Corps staff for instance is not eligible for the CIB since it's above brigade level.
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I was in Iraq at Besmaya Range/fob hammer and we got nothing my command was to lazy so I spent 22 years in and never got no CAB ate a CIB very disappointed with my Army career
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SPC Philip Roosevelt
SFC Derrick Harris, I am happy to send you the info on how to apply for a retroactive award of the CIB/CAB. I'm in the process of doing it now, and it's kind of a pain in the ass, but also more straightforward than I expected. I hope I can help. If nothing else, I'm actually happy to be seeing I'm not the only one that got screwed over. I left the military very bitter and angry and have only recently started chasing this up for closure, and seeing all these comments and stories on this thread at least brings me some solace knowing the big green weenie wasn't out to get only me.
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'Nam '69-70, Panama "Just Cause" '89-90". CIB given to all 11B's at JOTB Ft Sherman except CSM, another E-7 and myself because we already had one from VN. Did get a "Certificate of Participation" though. I was Opes Sgt for NCO Academy and deployed students as infantry company. Also worked S-3 as Ops Sgt making out all ops orders etc. One of my cadre received BS for running chow out to troops. All I got, as previously stated was a certificate of participation.
Whole system sucks, NAM I received a SS, and my Bn Cmdr received DSC for my actions. Go figure.
Whole system sucks, NAM I received a SS, and my Bn Cmdr received DSC for my actions. Go figure.
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SP5 Joel McDargh
If I'm not mistaken you should have been awarded a star for your CIB as you served in a second separate combat action after Vietnam. I do believe your superiors dropped the ball on that one. Could be they were a bit envious or weren't doing their duty to give just recognition. Welcome home anyway, and God bless.
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SGT Chester Beedle
SP5 Joel McDargh - No, the CIB is also awarded for blocks of time. You could have been in Vietnam, Panama, Grenada, Desert Storm, Urgent Fury, and anything else that I'm missing up to the September 2001 and would only have the single CIB.
I don't remember where Korea fit into the time. If it was with the WW2 era, or everything after WW2. But it was either everything after WW2 or it was everything after Korea, and up to the beginning of the GWOT.
The GWOT started another block of time.
I don't remember where Korea fit into the time. If it was with the WW2 era, or everything after WW2. But it was either everything after WW2 or it was everything after Korea, and up to the beginning of the GWOT.
The GWOT started another block of time.
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SPC William Wilson
SP5 Joel McDargh Vietnam and Panama falls into the same awarding period for award of th CIB, so if you had one for Nam, no star for you.
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